New, pretty old, Khorns

[kuisis]

I just bit the bullet and bought the 54 and 56 Khorn in the Garage Sale section. I'm pretty excited and pretty clueless about them. I was wondering how the older models stand up to the new models? I was also looking for advice about which tweeter is better, the EV-35 or the University tweeter. I'm looking into crossover upgrades also. I've heard that you should keep the old ones and just buy new ones and keep the old ones original. As a first time Khorn owner any other advice would be appreciated. I'd also like to thank Neil for his assistance.

Tom

[DizRotus]

Tom,.

I'm glad you bought them. Without your approval, I would not have disclosed you as the buyer.

If I were "restoring" these, I'd focus on the balancing networks at first. BEC (Bob Crites) and DeanG are good Forum resources to consult regarding balancing networks.

[Islander]

Is your plan to do some mild upgrades, or to try to convert your vintage speakers into 2009 models? It probably could be done, but there's something special about having speakers that are over 50 years old and still sound very good. I'm assuming your speakers do sound very good.

[kuisis]

I'd like to restore them to as close to original condition as possible. So like Neil said the crossovers will be first. Later I can worry about the tweeters. I consider them as I would an old car, I wouldn't throw a 350 chevy into a Auburn speedster.

[seti]

I'd like to restore them to as close to original condition as possible. So like Neil said the crossovers will be first. Later I can worry about the tweeters. I consider them as I would an old car, I wouldn't throw a 350 chevy into a Auburn speedster.

It is funy you say that because in Hardy, AR there is a small car museum with a creamy yellow auburn with I think a 350 or 351. The Auburn is beautiful.

[TheEvan]

I babysat a similar pair ('55 & '57) for few years way back when. On the one hand I found them sounding pretty 'wooly'. Now that I understand things better, I'd guess the main culprit was old caps in the network. On the other hand, there was a certain "something" about them my newer Khorns have never managed to duplicate.

BTW, that pair was a beautiful piano black gloss lacquer. The grill cloth was mostly black but it has interwoven with nubby silver threads. Outstanding look!

Congratulations on a really cool purchase. Nothing looks cooler than an old wooden horn.

[seti]

I wish retro grill cloth would make a big come back. The options they had in the 50's were amazing.

[DizRotus]

Seti-

Are you sure it's a real Auburn? There was a very good looking Auburn Boat Tail Speedster reproduction that was built on a Ford chassis and had Ford V-8 power. The front suspension is a dead give away. Auburns did not have coil springs, Fords do.

[seti]

Seti-

Are you sure it's a real Auburn? There was a very good looking Auburn Boat Tail Speedster reproduction that was built on a Ford chassis and had Ford V-8 power. The front suspension is a dead give away. Auburns did not have coil springs, Fords do.

I did not know but that certainly makes sense. I bet you're right. What car enthusiast would do that to an auburn? They claim it is an Auburn but I'll check next time I'm up there this fall for trout fishing and floating. Thanks for the info!

[kuisis]

I have been to the Auburn, Cord, Duuesenberg Museum in Indiana. If you tried to pass off a newer v8 instead of the straight 8 they would string you up. Do you catch any of the big brown trout in Arkansas? Nobody has any opinion about which, if any, tweeter is better.?

[seti]

I have been to the Auburn, Cord, Duuesenberg Museum in Indiana. If you tried to pass off a newer v8 instead of the straight 8 they would string you up. Do you catch any of the big brown trout in Arkansas? Nobody has any opinion about which, if any, tweeter is better.?

I'd like to go to that museum!!

My biggest catch off the Little Red River is a 16inch brown trout. That was a while back. I took it home and my mom smoked it. Good stuff.

My favorite tweeter is the 70's alnico k77 but that is only because that what I have. The word alnico just sounds cool.

[kuisis]

Seti

If you really enjoy those three cars it's worth a trip to the museum. Once a year they have ACD days. Lots of cars and other things.

[BEC]

"Nobody has any opinion about which, if any, tweeter is better?"

I know that PWK had an opinion about that. He said "The University 4401, a sad tweeter, but there wasn't anything significantly better."

He went to the EV T-35 as soon as he could.

Bob Crites

[Islander]

If you really enjoy those three cars it's worth a trip to the museum. Once a year they have ACD days. Lots of cars and other things.

Two years ago, it was Deuce Day in here in Victoria, the seventy-fifth anniversary of the '32 Ford, the Deuce, and there were several hundred Deuces in town, hot rods, all-original daily drivers, and everything in between, as well as quite a few other very cool old cars. They were parked, cruising around, and basically all over the Inner Harbour and the Old Town area. It was a very interesting and enjoyable summer weekend.

[DizRotus]

"Nobody has any opinion about which, if any, tweeter is better?"

I know that PWK had an opinion about that. He said "The University 4401, a sad tweeter, but there wasn't anything significantly better."

He went to the EV T-35 as soon as he could.

Bob Crites

Bob-

When did PWK first use the T-35?

It's interesting that the '54 speaker has the apparently retrofit T-35, whereas the newer '56 has the University 4401.

Tom Kuisis has stated a desire to keep them original, which would probably mean replacing the existing T-35 with a 4401. I'm not trying to speak for him, but if it were my project, I'd pick your brain again (you helped me rejuvenate a pair of La Scalas for the local high school).

I'd get another 4401 so that they could be returned to original easily at any time.

Next I'd get a pair of your tweeters and sell the T-35. I'd use the upgrade to listen to music and have the 4401s for comparison and to be able to return them to original.

The balancing networks (xovers) would be my first concern. I'd want to keep them original with the hand wound inductors on wooden spools, but I'd want the speakers to sound as good as possible. My inclination would be to have you make entirely new xovers to mate with the existing woofers and squawkers and Crites tweeters. I'd keep the original xovers and 4401s to be able to return everything to original.

• Would the xover change depending upon 4401, T-35 or Crites;
• Would you replace anything, such as capacitors, in the existing xovers, if they were going to be used;
• Would it make sense to try to use the existing xovers, rather than keep them in reserve;
• Do you need to confirm whether the woofers are Stephens, or something else, in order to maximize a replacement xover;
• Should Tom send you the existing xovers;
• Can 4401s be repaired (are they worth repairing); and
• What are your thoughts and suggestions regarding the somewhat competing interests of preserving history and/or enjoying music?

All of the above presumes that you're familiar with the thread in Garage Sale: '54 & '56 Khorns $1,550 in Detroit SALE PENDING, about the speakers that Tom has agreed to purchase. If you're not, please check it out.

I note that 4401s and T-35s are currently available on eBay, which is ususally the case. Again, I'd get another working 4401 as part of an original baseline and a pair of Crites as an upgrade. I'd not upgrade to T-35. Any suggestions regarding the squawker drivers, woofers or anything else about these antiques would be appreciated.

Again, I'm asking these questions as if I were keeping these, which I'm not. If the questions or your responses scare Tom away from the responsibility of being a custodian of Klipsch history (serial #779 for Crite's sake), then he's not the right person for the job. I doubt he'll be dissuaded, and feel that he'll appreciate your input.

As always, thank you for being such a valuable resource to the hobby and the Forum.

[khorn51]

I have a few old khorns ( call it 7 ) and the best sounding stock twetter to me is theJensen RP-302 used on my 51. I thik they only used it on some 51's. I dont know why klipsch stoped using it might have been cost and very few recodings back then used the high info this tweeter could put out.

The university tweeter is ok sounding but I would pick the t35 over it, but theres not that big of a diffrence.

I use the orig crossovers in most of my 50's Khorns and have found all them still up to spec. Te old large can caps rarely leak or driff out of spec. If someone is making new crossovers that are the same specs as the 50's one thats news to me as the 60's and later are at diffrent points do the the metal mid horn bass slot ect. I like the way the older horns sound over newer ones. I have done a lot of a b using the top from my split lascals with new and stock a/ aa crossovers. the 51 is the smoothest sounding and my number one pic.

If you have the trousonic 15's dump them and send them to me,I'll send you some new k33.

[kuisis]

I am doing a lot of research on old khorn's and am definitely keeping them as original as possible without compromising the sound. I can see I have a lot to learn.

Tom

[garyrc]

I think PWK went to the T 35 (later renamed the K-77 for Klipsch use) in 1957/1958. I heard a rumor that they were slowly introduced. The T 35 was improved sometime back then by the addition of something called something like the "Avedon" or "Avadon" ---Does anyone know what that was, and when it happened?Some people seem to prefer the newer flat magnet K-77 to the old round magnet K -77 .... but I had some old round magnet T-35s in a home brew small set of speakers in the 1970s and at normal volume they could deliver a clearly audible 16K Hz from directly behind the speakers! I've never moved my Khorns out to see if I could hear that frequency from behind the current K-77s, and my ears are now rolling off a bit up there. Some 34 years later, those old T-35s are still in use with our bedroom TV/DVD setup, along with a Klipsch Pro media taking the lower frequencies, and the highs are crisp and clear. Although I've sometimes wished Klipsch would come out with an improved tweeter for the Khorn (efficiency that high is hard to come by), at other times the K - 77s sound so incredibly good, especially with brass and brass embedded in other instruments, that I still marvel at them. When I hear other people's good systems, or hear a really well recorded movie at a good theater, I often notice that I'm missing the pizzazz (good pizzazz) at the top that I get through my Khorns with K-77s.

[kuisis]

Thanks for the information everyone.

Tom

[sheltie dave]

Tom, if you use the University 4401s, you are taking a pretty big compromise in sound quality. PWK was always about using the best sounding cheapest driver he could source, and today that would probably be Bob's Eminence tweeters. They will sound good, fit inside the midhorn on the original mount, and go about their business with aplomb all day long. The Universitys will announce their presence all day long - and Paul ended up hating them.