Klipsch Heresy VS La Scalas

[Evolvo]

Now I know alot of people hate vs threads, but I recently sold my La Scalas and replaced them with decorator heresy's. My room is 23X13'. I actually think the Heresy's sound better. The soundstage sounds bigger and separation of high's mids and lows are more pronounced. So what I'm wondering, is this because of the fact that maybe the La Scalas were too big for the room, or is it the fact that for the last week I've been using polk M20 $100 bookshelf speakers as fronts and my judgement has been clouded. Even my girlfriend said they sounded better than the La Scala's. Also the Heresy's have the Alcino tweeter, does that really make a difference.

[Coytee]

I guess if they sound better to you, then they sound better!

I don't know about the tweeter differences. Frankly, I can't believe that the LaScalas could be too big for the room UNLESS this comes into play. I guess you can't do this since they're gone...

I was going to suggest taking them outdoors (single La Scala) and playing it mono. Start backing away and find a spot where the sound comes together and sounds noticably better than it does when you are standing say, 10' away.

Had you done this, you would possibly have found the speaker might have sounded better when you were 25' away. This might lead you to think the speaker is too large for the room. I would however, suggest it's a better indication of the horn path differences in length. Had you done this, and then put an active crossover in there to align the signals from each driver, I'd suggest that same La Scalla would have sounded much better in that same room.

I experienced this same situation with my Khorns but, I had to be 30' away before the sound was out of this world! The sound was good while in the room but it simply took a bit longer for the sound to come together into a single coherent wave front. Now that I'm biamping with some delay thrown into the equation, my speakers sound much better in the room (up close) than my Khorns did while in the same room (up close).

Bottom line though.... as long as you're happy with your choice, then that's all that really matters.

[winchester21]

Speaker choices are very subjective. I listened to both while considering surrounds and center channel applications . IMHO the la scalla gets the nod. One of the most vesatile speakers in the whole product line in my book. Works for any position in the HT mix. They sound great as fronts cranked or at low volumes. I have 2 sets and can't imagine changing. Herseys are great speakers but IMHO -not in the same class as LS.

But like Richard said- if they sound good to you...then they sound good

[Evolvo]

I just don't get how people can say not in the same class and they pretty much have the same tweeter and midrange. The mids and highs are exactly the same right.

[Coytee]

The tweeter is the same (perhaps disregarding minor changes to the tweeter brands) The midrange horn is NOT the same. You have the K400/K401 on the La Scala and a (???) on the Heresy, a smaller horn. (I don't know the number)

It's unfortunate that you did this without perhaps trying some other things. If you are ever near Knoxville (TN), I can take a LaScala outside and show you EXACTLY what I'm talking about, regarding the sound "coming together" 25 feet away. I can then take that same speaker, reconfigure it a bit, add some signal delay and you will find that the sound will come together MUCH closer than 25' after some delay is put in. It really helps to bring the speaker into better focus.

You also have different woofer drivers and clearly, a different woofer configuration on the two speakers.

[Oblio]

I was going to suggest taking them outdoors (single La Scala) and playing it mono. Start backing away and find a spot where the sound comes together and sounds noticably better than it does when you are standing say, 10' away.

Had you done this, you would possibly have found the speaker might have sounded better when you were 25' away. This might lead you to think the speaker is too large for the room. I would however, suggest it's a better indication of the horn path differences in length. Had you done this, and then put an active crossover in there to align the signals from each driver, I'd suggest that same La Scalla would have sounded much better in that same room.

I experienced this same situation with my Khorns but, I had to be 30' away before the sound was out of this world! The sound was good while in the room but it simply took a bit longer for the sound to come together into a single coherent wave front. Now that I'm biamping with some delay thrown into the equation, my speakers sound much better in the room (up close) than my Khorns did while in the same room (up close).

Why does changing the delay have this effect ? ISTM that any delay due to driver misalignment would remain constant with distance. Is this a near/far field thing ? Enquiring enginears want to know. []

[dtel]

One of the most vesatile speakers in the whole product line in my book.

I believe this also, a great all around speaker.

Not to take anything away from the Heresy, to be honest if you were to put all the Klipsch speakers together they all have a similar sound, some a little stronger or weaker in different areas but they all have the same character that Klipsch sound.

[Budman]

trust me, your judgement has been clouded

edit: i just did a side by side with the belle and the heresy in a 13x16 room. i took the heresys out and kept the belles

[Chris A]

My room is 23X13'.

That 13' dimension could be a contributor to your perception in whatever speakers you use. K-402 two-way Jubilees would probably sound really good in that room in two of its corners.

I actually think the Heresy's sound better. The soundstage sounds bigger and separation of high's mids and lows are more pronounced. So what I'm wondering, is this because of the fact that maybe the La Scalas were too big for the room, or is it the fact that for the last week I've been using polk M20 $100 bookshelf speakers as fronts and my judgement has been clouded. Even my girlfriend said they sounded better than the La Scala's.

What version/year La Scalas did you have? How about Heresy version? Where did you have them in the room - in the same place? Were they both sitting on the floor? How about EQ?

Also the Heresy's have the Alnico tweeter, does that really make a difference.

Could be part of it, but likely not. If your former La Scalas and your present Heresies were in reasonable shape (i.e., good crossover capacitors, good mid and tweeter driver diaphrams), the driver differences are probably not that large between the two.

[Daddy Dee]

I've had both LaScalas and Heresys.

Preferring Heresy is somewhat counter-intuitive, however, trust your ears. If it sounds good to you and your GF you've got a real winner.

It's all about enjoying the music and the Heresy footprint is a winner, too.

[Coytee]

Macon Georgia eh? You're close enough to spend 1/2 day and find out with your own ears!

Regarding

ISTM that any delay due to driver misalignment would remain constant with distance

, it seems ironic that I'm saying anything to a (future I suppose) engineer.

My understanding is you're probably right in your presumptions. What I'm referring to is sticking an active crossover inside the food chain so we can digitally delay the HF signal and in essence "push it back" into alignment with the larger and longer bass unit. Once they are aligned digitally, then the sound would hit you in a single wave, not tweeter first...........midrange....................................................................................then woofer

You're probably 2 1/2 hours away from Knoxville? (Just drove to Lawrenceburg, then Conyers over the weekend)

It's an honest offer if you ever care to spend a day on the road.

[winchester21]

Coytee- I think this guy needs some Jubilees- 13 x 25 room same size as mine.... no prob.

[Oblio]

Macon Georgia eh? You're close enough to spend 1/2 day and find out with your own ears!

Regarding

ISTM that any delay due to driver misalignment would remain constant with distance

, it seems ironic that I'm saying anything to a (future I suppose) engineer.

My understanding is you're probably right in your presumptions. What I'm referring to is sticking an active crossover inside the food chain so we can digitally delay the HF signal and in essence "push it back" into alignment with the larger and longer bass unit. Once they are aligned digitally, then the sound would hit you in a single wave, not tweeter first...........midrange....................................................................................then woofer

You're probably 2 1/2 hours away from Knoxville? (Just drove to Lawrenceburg, then Conyers over the weekend)

It's an honest offer if you ever care to spend a day on the road.

Never driven to Knoxville, ATL is 1-1.5 hrs, I'm skeered to listen to Jubs []

Been an engineer (EE) since '83. I certainly understand aligning all the sources in time, what I dont understand is how a timo delay in the separate drivers maps to a distance where they are later aligned (if I understand what you were saying before). This would imply a propgation speed that was dependent on frequency. IOW, if the LF was n millseconds behind the mid (given the drivers are driven at the same time), then the repective wavefronts should always have the same time relationship at any distance from the speaker. Please understand I'm not trying to argue, just understand how active EQ fixes the time misalignment at the source. Of course this is all at at least 9 orders of magnitude (and different types of waves) in frequency less than my current work but I think the physics should be the same ....

[Oblio]

More rambling ....

I'm thinking once aligned at the source, all should be good from there on out for any distance, neglecting of course any delays due to misaligment in other planes. Of course practically speaking you would be deaf listening that close. [H]

[Marvel]

Richard,

I think you are confusing the time delay with the vertical searation between the drivers in the two different cabinets. When I had my LaScalas on my long wall (21ft), and I was away from them, probably only 8ft. My room is pretty much the same size 13x21. I moved them to the short wall so I could sit father back from them. Now the sound from the woofer/mid/tweeter hit me as one 'sound'. Up closer, I her the bass lower and the tweeter higher, not in frequency, but in position.

I also moved my tweeter outside the regular cabinet and have it acousitcally aligned with the mid driver. This made a huge change as well, the the distance thing helped first.

Bruce

[Coytee]

Coytee- I think this guy needs some Jubilees- 13 x 25 room same size as mine.... no prob

(Elmer Fudd voice)

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, be very quiet.... I was going to let the Jubilees sneak up on him & bite him in the hiney!

As for my comparison, what I was going to try to do was show the passive La Scala then convert it to a 2-way JubeScala.

[Coytee]

I'm thinking once aligned at the source, all should be good from there on out for any distance, neglecting of course any delays due to misaligment in other planes.

If I'm following you here, then yes... that is what I was saying. (tough for me to keep up with you injuneers)

To put into different scenario (and not saying this was affecting you, but I gotta wonder)

I had Khorns in my room. I had Al K's 'extreme slope networks' in them. Sounded very nice. I discovered quite by accident that they sounded noticably better when I was standing about 30' feet away from them. When I shoved the Jubilees into same corners (after Khorns left of course!), I soon went to that same 30' distance spot, awaiting to hear how much better the Jubilees soudned at that same spot.

Long story short... they didn't sound noticably better. I was very baffled. I then figured it out (or so I think I did)

The Khorns had steeper sloped crossovers in them so each driver was putting out a more defined range. This necessitated more time (therefore distance) for the three drivers to meld into a singular wave front. At 30' away this had happened and the wonderful sound of the Khorn was in full bloom. I don't sit at the bottom of my stairs though. When you got in closer to them, you could ascertain each driver a bit.

When I put the (signal aligned) Jubilees into the same location, I went to that 30' spot.... the Jubilees sounded just the same.

What took me a while to finally get through my thick skull was since the signal was delayed, the 'bubble' of sound was coming out of the speaker as a single bubble and not seperate bubbles like the Khorn might have done.

This meant, the Jubilee sounded better while being IN the room than the Khorn. Though sounding good while IN the room, the Khorn sounded much better when you were standing a distance away. The Jubilee had no increase in sound quality. It starts good and carrys on out.

[Coytee]

I think you are confusing the time delay with the vertical searation between the drivers in the two different cabinets. When I had my LaScalas on my long wall (21ft), and I was away from them, probably only 8ft. My room is pretty much the same size 13x21. I moved them to the short wall so I could sit father back from them. Now the sound from the woofer/mid/tweeter hit me as one 'sound'. Up closer, I her the bass lower and the tweeter higher, not in frequency, but in position.

I also moved my tweeter outside the regular cabinet and have it acousitcally aligned with the mid driver. This made a huge change as well, the the distance thing helped first.

Question.... would you feel the distance between the K402 and the bass bin is closer than the net distances of drivers in the Khorn? (same? farther?)

I would speculate the distance between the drivers in the Jubilee would be at least as far as in the Khorn, perhaps even father seperated since the K402 is so big??

To my ears, the Jubilee sounds much more like a single point source speaker than my Khorns did (when I was in the room with them, when I was 30' away, they sounded like a singular point source also)

I certainly might be confusing things.... (won't be my first time!!)