La Scala Upgrade

[drbtt]

I am new to this forum and to Klipsch. Since purchasing my La Scalas I have become a very passionate Klipsch fan. My other speakers are Martin Logans which I thought I could never better, that was until I heard Klipsch.

Anyway, like a true audiophile, I want to upgrade my La Scalas. I have spent countless hours going through the forums and taking in words of wisdom from Bob Crites and Al K and DeanG and others and I still don't know which way to go. Something emphasized is how I my precieve my music and my listening preferances, the room they are in, as well as what I hope to achieve.

That criteria is:

1. I listen to everything from classical to rock at low to medium levels. I use a 50wpc tube amp.
2. The room is approximately 24'Lx11'Wx7'H and is carpeted.
3. I don't care about the >50hz absence but I do wish the highs were
   more distinct and airy, as Bob has said, the cymbols don't sound right. I
   also detect strain in the 5000hz - 6000hz range which I would like to
   overcome. I do not wish to change the woofer or mid-range as I like the
   Klipsch sound.I have LSIs which date from 1989 and have the AL
   crossover. The speakers have never been modified.

I would very much appreciate any guidance you might give me. It is great to be part of a community where people are so passionate about an interest.

Thank you

Dale

[Blvdre]

Al's Universal and a pair of Crites CT-125s.

[Guest David H]

Al's Universal

I agree, if you dont want to mess with the mid horn, replace the AL crossover with the Universal.

Dave

[BS Button]

An AL-3 would also be much better than the dredded AL.

[edwinr]

Doesn't Klipsch offer an upgrade package? Or is that the AL-3 you guys are talking about?

[greg928gts]

I would also recommend the ALK crossover for the La Scala. It's a good first step. []

Greg

[drbtt]

Greg

I think it is very big of you to recommend Al's products, considering the difference of opinion that you and he have shared in the forums.

With your and other member's recommendations, I think I will purchase a crossover from Al but I do have a couple questions:

• why the universal as opposed to Al's other crossovers?
• I also intend to go with Bob Crites tweeters, which as I understand, will function well below 6000hz. Will the universal crossover allow me to have a lower crossover point for the tweeter?

I very much appreciate everyone's help.

Thank you

Dale

[Daddy Dee]

for what you listen to, and at reasonable levels:

Type A or AA crossover with 4500hz mod. CT 125 Tweeter.

You are picking up on the strain at 5000 to 6000 hz. This is the K55 pooping out and not being very well behaved.

rolling off the K55 at 4500hz and the realism of the CT125 (amazing cybal strikes, IMO) was a delight to my ears. My pref. is the type A.

[psg]

I also intend to go with Bob Crites tweeters, which as I understand, will function well below 6000hz. Will the universal crossover allow me to have a lower crossover point for the tweeter?

Then get the A/4500 crossovers from Bob for $210. It's a Type-A modded to 4500 Hz for use with the CT-125.

[CapZark]

I swapped out the stock ALs for the Crites A/AA and that's all I needed. I have most of the Heritage speakers except the mighty K-Horn, but the La Scalas are still my favorite with the fresh Crites crossovers feeding the big horn.

[greg928gts]

Greg

I think it is very big of you to recommend Al's products, considering the difference of opinion that you and he have shared in the forums.

With your and other member's recommendations, I think I will purchase a crossover from Al but I do have a couple questions:

• why the universal as opposed to Al's other crossovers?
• I also intend to go with Bob Crites tweeters, which as I understand, will function well below 6000hz. Will the universal crossover allow me to have a lower crossover point for the tweeter?

I very much appreciate everyone's help.

Thank you

Dale

I have never said anything bad about Al's products, I think his stuff is terrific, and frankly, he ought to be selling them for more money than he does. I think if he was a nicer person, he would be able to more effectively market himself and charge a little more for his products.

You asked about Al's other crossovers, so I'll give you my opinion. I like the simpler networks better. The Universal represents great value, and is a big improvement over the stock AL crossovers in the LS. It costs a lot of money to get into the extreme slope networks that he sells, and I just don't think it's worth the money. The theory of using extreme slopes as an improved crossover filter is not universally accepted as being an improvement.

The Universal network design would need to be modified to be crossed-over lower than 6000Hz. If you are going to keep the stock midrange horns, you might realize a small improvement in the highs by switching the crossover point to 4500Hz. Al once helped me design a specific pair of Universal networks that did this and it works well.

Greg

[BE36]

Universals for mid-range and bass improvements. Kipsch also has replacement network, only one that I have not tried, 1.5x times $$$ of a univerasal. . .

JBL 2404 or JBL 2405 Tweeters -- symbols will sound like symbols and you will not believe how much music above 14,000 hertz you missing with the stock tweeters. CT-125 fit much better and are an improvement over the KT-77s.

Best upgrade for La Scalas is a Pair of VRDs -- you will not need a sub for 99.99% of music, only movies.

Fastrac Midrange horns are great if your amp is a little too "Accurate" for Klipch Exponential horns.

[Blvdre]

If you want to cross at 4500hz, Al did post a mod to the universal to accomodate this: Here

[greg928gts]

If you want to cross at 4500hz, Al did post a mod to the universal to accomodate this: Here

Thanks for that link, it was interesting reading.

Greg

[Al Klappenberger]

I think the only reason to move the crossover from 6000 down to 4000 is as a crutch for the K400 horn. The lower you cross over to a good tweeter the less you hear the K400 horn. I suggest replacing the K400 with a better horn and leave the crossover at 6000. Doing that will also keep you from having to replace the tweeter, unless you want to. The K77 isn't reliable down to 4000 Hz.

Al K.

[66hr]

The ALK universal network matched up well with the CT-125 in my La-sacalas. I found that the K-77-M was a bit bright with the universals and AL-3's, but great with the attenuator. The K-77 isn't a good performer to my ears.

Coating the K-400 so to dampen it, is a cheap and easy mod.

Some may not like the ES networks, I certainly do. I found the CT-125's matched up better with the ES4000.

We're all different.

[Al Klappenberger]

The Universal network runs the tweeter wide open. With the K77 and other high efficiency tweeters, an attenuator is often needed, The CT125 has lower efficiency and happens to be just perfect for the Universal. The ES networks have the tweeter attenuator built and can adjust to any 8 ohm tweeter. It's an option with the universal.

Al K.

[drbtt]

I would like to thank everyone for their advise. I very much appreciate the Klipsch education I am receiving.

Thank you

Dale

[Coytee]

The most significant improvment I've heard to LaScalas was yanking the top horns out and replacing them with the Klipsch K510 or the huge K402, creating a "JubeScala". My experience has been removing a crossover point enhanced the coherence of the speaker far more than anything else I've heard.

As a background, I've owned LaScalas for 31 years. I've replaced the AA crossovers with Al K's Extreme Slope crossovers and I also had a JB L 2404 tweeter. I have never heard a different midrange horn other than the K400.

So my only comparison is a stock LaScala or my modified LaScalas, BOTH setup as 3-way compared to a 2-way JubeScala. I'd go 2-way every time now, if I could.

Doing the JubeScala is not without some challanges as you then need to get an active crossover and biamp (which itself can be a good thing). Although it's not a plug/play upgrade like perhaps a new crossover, it IS plug/play from the perspective that it's already been engineered by Klipsch and tested in their chamber. All you need to do is assemble the parts, program the crossover (settings can be emailed & loaded into active) and then listen.

Ultimately, it's a matter of how much do you want to spend. Good luck in your journey

[Islander]

Doing the JubeScala is not without some challanges as you then need to get an active crossover and biamp (which itself can be a good thing). Although it's not a plug/play upgrade like perhaps a new crossover, it IS plug/play from the perspective that it's already been engineered by Klipsch and tested in their chamber. All you need to do is assemble the parts, program the crossover (settings can be emailed & loaded into active) and then listen.

Ultimately, it's a matter of how much do you want to spend.

JubScalas sound really fine and are a big upgrade from stock La Scalas. As Coytee mentioned, the recipe/formula was engineered at Klipsch, right down to the crossover settings, so there's no guesswork or experimentation to do. It was all done at the factory lab in Hope by Roy Delgado.

You just take a pair of La Scalas with working woofers, add a pair of K510 or K402 horns, with K-69 drivers in either case, find a new or used E-V Dx38 processor, add a pair of matching amps that you like, and you're good to go!

Actually, the trickiest part is hooking up the pro audio Dx38 to a typical home audio receiver or pre-amp, but once you've got that sorted, you're in for some great listening. It's not cheap, unless you compare the price to a new pair of Jubilees, and you need the amps and processor for those, too.

Relative to Jubilees, you save a few thousand dollars, and the JubScalas are more compact, comparitively speaking. From what I read (I've not heard Jubilees myself), the JubScalas are a big step in the direction of Jubilees, and could be called the junior version. When your budget can cover the big boys, you've already got the associated electronics. Then you could either sell the JubScalas or convert them back to La Scalas for surround speakers.