Maple RF-7's in the House

[Youthman]

I invited a friend over to help me compare speakers. Over the course of an hour, we listened to a variety of music in 2ch with no sub, sending LFE to the mains set to Large. I wanted to see what the RF-7's and RF-83's sounded like all by themselves.

I for one am not even close to an audiophile, my friend even less than I so take this review with a grain of salt.

My friend said to him, the highs were more pronounced in the RF-7's. He said the RF-83's were definitely more relaxed and he prefered the "in your face" liveliness of the RF-7's.

To my ears, the RF-83's had a better lower register. For example, when watching Michael Jackson's This is It, the song Billy Jean has a very strong beat when the song starts. The RF-83's were tight, rock solid and exhilarating. The RF-7's sounded fantastic as well, just not as much impact in the bass region. It is possible that the RF-83's have a slight advantage since they are closer to the side walls but on the other hand, the rear ports are firing into the screen of the false wall door and it's a good 3 feet to the back wall. The RF-7's are further away from the side walls but they have the cabinet directly behind them. Not sure if that makes any difference....just an observation.

The RF-83's did have a more refined sound. Vocals sounded less harsh, slightly faded which gave a smooth, sound. The RF-7's didn't sound too harsh but on some songs, the vocals sounded almost strained and forced.

All in all, I was grinning whether I was listening to the RF-83's or the RF-7's. Both are truly masterpieces in design, sound and craftsmanship.

To be honest, I REALLY want to leave them out in front instead of behind the false wall. They sound so much more alive and dynamic than when they are tucked away into their dark corners. I think it's because they are scared and alone in there. LOL Seriously, the doors of the false wall make it look finished and appealing but there is definitely a sacrifice of sound quality. Still not sure what I'm going to do about that.

So if you are considering either the RF-83's or the RF-7's, I say get whatever fits your room better (footprint) and whatever you can find the cheapest. I did hear slight differences between the two but I did not hear even $50 worth of differnces. What I mean by that is that I would not consider one better or worse than the other, simply different. There were times I liked the brightness of the RF-7's and sometimes it sounded forced. I definitely preferred the punch and tighness of bass in the RF-83's but by all means, the RF-7's provided plenty of bass.

So in conclusion, I want to echo the words of CECAA850 as I wholeheartedly agree with his thoughts...

To me there really is no clear cut winner. They both have strong points and weak points. They're different speakers for sure. To me it's the same as debating which is better, vanilla or chocolate. It's a matter of taste. Me personally....... I like them both.

BTW, I prefer vanilla. [Y]

So there you have it, a review that is probably worth what you paid for it. []

[Youthman]

I doubt you will make one the clear winner, I would think both will have there strong points, just a little different. I would not want to have to decide between the two.

Yes, that was my conclusion too. I mainly bought them out of curiosity, wanting to finally hear for myself the differences and experience them in my own HT and see if I was "missing something" by going with the RF-83's. I'm convinced that I would be pleased with either of them.

Congratulations, quite the collection/addiction you have going there, like Michael says " collect them all there a set ".

Yeah, my wife thinks I'm crazy (rightfully so). I wish I could keep both pair and even leave them out in front like they are but I really don't "need" two pairs and I'm not sure I want to leave them out in the open like that since I do have 4 children and their friends are ALWAYS over and often are in the theater room playing the PS3, Wii or watching a movie. And there is NO way I would be able to convince her to let me put a 2ch system in the living room. She was the one who actually suggested that we have a dedicated theater room when we were designing our house so that she wouldn't have to see big bulky speakers in the living room.

Decisions...decisions....

[Youthman]

looks like a basketball player vs a linebacker

Now that's funny!

[willland]

Youthman,

I would have to agree with your assessment based on my limited listening time with either the RF-7 or RF-83.

RF-7 = kick to the chest

RF-83 = kick to the chest, then a hug.[}]

Bill

[Arky]

Youth:

You're a good man & have an understanding wife.

you gotta email or pm from me.

[Pete H]

Youthman,

I would have to agree with your assessment based on my limited listening time with either the RF-7 or RF-83.

RF-7 = kick to the chest

RF-83 = kick to the chest, then a hug.

Bill

That's just funny Bill! I'm not sure what your using to power them but regarding the 7's I must say that to get the full potential from the bottom end they really like power and when I played with mine a while back I ran one with the Onkyo 805 and the other with 350 watts from a carver amp and there was a big difference and it was noticed by everyone who heard them and didn't know which one was being driven by the Carver. They all picked it right, it was that obvious.

[Fish]

I hooked my 83s to an avr, they sounded great.I hooked my 7's to the same avr, they sounded slightly bright and strained and overall not as good as 83s.I hooked them both to a good prepro and the 7's excelled.This was just my observation but 7's are not forgiving and polite as 83's.I sold the 83s but they were great speakers.

[Youthman]

RF-7 = kick to the chest

RF-83 = kick to the chest, then a hug

Bill, that's an interesting way to look at it. Indeed, very similar in sound (at least to me).

Youth:

You're a good man & have an understanding wife.

you gotta email or pm from me.

Arky, I am truly blessed to have my wife. I totally married up (most guys do). We have an amazing marriage. Even after 13 years and 4 children (4yrs - 11yrs), I'm still in love and she still is my best friend. Checking my PM's after I reply to the posts.

I'm not sure what your using to power them but
regarding the 7's I must say that to get the full potential from the
bottom end they really like power

Hey Pete, I'm using my Parasound HCA2205a (220w x 5). It's a sweet amp with tons of clean power and headroom. Specs at 60 amps peak per channel. It weighs 85 lb. When I originally added it to my RF-83's it definitely moved them to a new level and has allowed them to reach their potential.

I hooked my 83s to an avr, they sounded great.I
hooked my 7's to the same avr, they sounded slightly bright and strained
and overall not as good as 83s

Fish, I've never owned a
Pre/Pro so i can't comment on that. I'm sure different components do
play a role in how a speaker sounds. I'm using a PS3 where someone else
maybe using an Oppo. Maybe one day way down the road, I might move to a
Pre/Pro but frankly, they sound so good right now, I don't see any need
whatsoever to "upgrade" to a Pre/Pro. I'm very content with the setup
so far.

[jacksonbart]

Top Notch. Now choose!

[tragusa3]

I'm curious that if they perform so closely, why is it that the 7's have gathered such status? I've not heard a single person that wouldn't put the 7's at the top of the Reference line, but now I'm hearing that it's subtle differences. Audio is so tough to discuss over the internet. Our rooms are the biggest variable, and we don't have apples to apples experiences even with the same hardware.

So, do you have to choose one? or do you get to keep both?

[carbon summit]

I must be missing something. It seems to me by the comments comparing the RF-83 and the RF-7 that the RF-83 is better. More refined maybe.
But then in the next breath people say they kept the RF-7. What am I misunderstanding? Obviously the one you keep is the best so I must be misunderstanding something!

[Youthman]

I'm curious that if they perform so closely, why is it that the 7's have gathered such status?

From what I've heard, those that have been around Klipsch for awhile were used to a certain "klipsch sound". When the RF-83's came out, since they were more laid back, many of them didn't like the change in sound.

I've not heard a single person that wouldn't put the 7's at the top of the Reference line, but now I'm hearing that it's subtle differences.

I might just very well be the only one. [] Actually, there are several that have posted in this thread that concur with my findings. Differences yes, night and day, no. Definitely not enough for me to "declare a winner". They both rock and anyone who owns either I'm sure love theirs.

One thing too is that I have owned my RF-83's since March of 2008. I've become familiar with how they sound so the RF-7's naturally sound different but I don't necessarily think that difference makes them sound "better".

Our rooms are the biggest variable, and we don't have apples to apples experiences even with the same hardware.

I think that is the biggest factor. Many do not have the opportunity to hear both in their own environment, with their own equipment with their own acoustics. We also all have different hearing too. My hearing is not what I would consider as "critical". What some people hear, maybe my ears don't pick up those subtleties.

So, do you have to choose one? or do you get to keep both?

I don't necessarily "have" to choose one, but I really don't have a place to put both of them. I think I mentioned above that my audio gear is confined to the theater room only. That was the point of my wife suggesting building a dedicated theater room. I can do anything I want in there, she just doesn't want speakers in the rest of the house. Fair enough to me.

If I kept both pair in the theater room, to me, one pair would be redundant. It's not like I would use one for 2ch and the other for HT. With the similarities, one pair is just unnecessary.

I'm listening to the 7's now. My last test is going to be using the SPL meter. I'm just curious if the RF-7's are slightly louder at the same volume since they are 2db more sensitive. I thought I heard that you need at least 3db or maybe 5db before your ears can "hear" an increase in volume. If the RF-7's are slightly louder due to the sensitivity, I want to see if I turn the 83's up slightly to match SPL or turn the 7's down slightly to match the SPL of the 83's, if they sound even more similar. They may just register the same SPL....again, I just want to see and hear for myself.

Headed to the theater room to run some more tests.....stay tuned.

[Youthman]

Ok, I just finished doing several comparisons using the SPL Meter. I picked an approcimate 10 second section from each song below just to use as a reference.

Constants:
Yamaha Receiver Volume set at - 7
Receiver set to 2ch Stereo
Parasound (220 w x 5)
Sub turned off
Fronts set to Large

Nora Jones DVD - "One Flight Down" (vocal section)

RF-7 (90 - 94db)
RF-83 (88 -92db)

Michael Jackson's This is It - "Billy Jean" (strong bass beat at the beginning of the song)

RF-7 (96db - 98db
RF-83 (96db - 99db)

Eagles Hell Freezes Over DVD - "Hotel California"

With this one, I metered three sections of the very beginning of the song:

1) Dialogue where he says "For the record, we never broke up, we just took a 14 year vacation"

RF-7 - Vocal - (94db)
RF-83 - Vocal - (92db)

2) Guitar Solo after above dialog

RF-7 - Solo - (86-88db)
RF-83 - Solo - (84-86db

3) Conga beat after guitar solo

RF-7 - Conga - (88-92db)
RF-83 - Conga - (89-94db)

It's good to know that my ears aren't totally shot. After looking at the data myself, it confirms what my ears were hearing. When comparing the RF-83's and the RF-7's, the 7's appear to be more "in your face" partly because they are 2db louder. During lower frequencies (kick drum, conga etc), the RF-83's has slightly more SPL depending on the frequency.

Again, this is just another one of those things I wanted to know for myself.

[Youthman]

But then in the next breath people say they kept the RF-7. What am I misunderstanding?

Yeah, I'm with you. Maybe it's a partiality or bias that we have towards one speaker or another. Maybe it's the differences in our ears or the gear we have it hooked to when we A/B them. I'm not sure really. Just documenting what "my ears" hear in my particular setup.

It's fun just playing with this stuff. []

[InVeNtOr]

now you have to do a crossover in one of them! i can say having stock vs upgrade, i really like the upgrade way more. my only very strong piece of advice is if you do do a crossover upgrade, please please please pick your caps intelligently.

don't just assume the upgrade is a one trip solution. there are thousands of different caps with different ways of changing the color of the final output. first decide what the main use of the speakers are and then see what your wallet has to say about that. i would talk to a professional and tell them what you have and what you want to acheive. after that talk then chose the caps that suit you the best.

that is if you want to go that route. take care and nice purchase.

[Youthman]

I received an email from a forum member. Instead of retyping my final thoughts, here was my email to him.

I'm still trying to decide but I'm leaning towards
selling the RF-7's. It's interesting to hear
some people say they like the RF-7's better but then recommend getting the
DeanG xovers. From what I've read, the DeanG makes them sound more like the
RF-83's. LOL. Seems like most say that the RF-7's were harsh and the DeanG
tames them back, which is what the RF-83's are by default.

I bought the 7's merely out of curiosity. I just
wanted to hear for myself the differences so I can have more knowledge instead
of offering advice to others from what I've heard. Now I know first hand. To
me, it's just fun playing with different setups.

I've worked hard to get the system the way it is.
A long time ago (before I became a Christian), I always wanted more,
bigger/better, I was never satisfied. Now I've come to the point in my life
where I now do my research, decide what I want (usually not the best and most
expensive but not the bottom end either....something in the middle), save up
cash, look for deals and then buy.

As I'm typing, I'm thinking out loud.....figured
I'd try and put together a Pros/Con list.

Reasons to Keep the
RF-7's:

Could get more for the 83's than I could for the 7's (but I'm not hurting
for cash)

Would be able to toe them in more if I kept them behind the false wall due
to them being shorter in depth.

Maple is rare, don't see them come up as often as the other finishes

Possibly slightly "brighter" in the highs than the 83's (which to me isn't
a bad thing).

Reasons to Keep the RF-83's:

I've been extremely satisfied with the
RF-83's

They have no cosmetic flaws

Sound so similar to the RF-7's

Slightly more punch in the bass region than the 7's

They match both in color and timbre to my RF-64

Magnetic grills instead of pegs (that always break) on the
7's

Now that I can see the list, my thoughts is there
isn't a big reason to keep the RF-7's over my RF-83's. It might be different if
my 83's were all beat up and the 7's were mint...but that's not the case.

I believe by thinking out loud in this email, I've
pretty much narrowed it down as to which ones I should keep.

What do you think?

Michael

[Youthman]

that is if you want to go that route. take care and nice purchase.

You are way much more of a tweeker than I am. I'd be totally happy to keep both of them just the way they are. But that's just me.

[Danzo]

Eh? What am i missing? Shouldn't all good capacitors sound the same?

'Lovely troubles' you have there, Youthman, hehe. I wish i had problems like that: RF7 or RF-83?!

[willland]

Ok, I just finished doing several comparisons using the SPL Meter.

Michael,

Great comparison exercises. I liked the way you recorded the data in decibel ranges instead of just peaks. Now I have to finally buy an SPL meter and do a Forte-Quartet test. Maybe I will include the RF-63's in that test since they are all side by side right now.

[^o)]How much would it be to ship a pair of RF-7's from Plant City to Kissimmee?[] You know I am just kidding.

Bill

[InVeNtOr]

you shouldn't count the grills against the 7's. you should have them off in the first place behind that false wall. take the grills off and store them (in that false wall could be a good place) and don't think about them again.

i have an idea, i'll trade plus cash my rc-7 for your rc-64! sound good? i thought so! i'll ship it out monday!

lol. the stock 64 doesn't quite match the stock 7's, but if you did a crossover upgrade they all would play nice. i don't think you would notice anything if you kept them all stock though.

just to let you know, i replaced my inductor (LF board) and now my 7's have much more big boom! lol. the bass did get increased quite a bit. don't know all the correct words to describe it except, inventor like!

i am stealing someone elses line......."Mmmmmmmm Maple......."

no, all caps are not created equal. it's like saying all guns are equal. special mission, special gun.