rennoc442 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Ever since I upgraded from my KLF-30's to the Belles, I felt I have been missing something,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bass. Now I love how the Belles sound! The soundstage it has and the top end, blows me away! Thats why I got them! I even love the fast hard bass it provides, but I need more..I feel myself going to my bedroom setup more to listen to 2 channel now. I dont like this. I thought maybe I needed more power, so I recently added a amp to the mix. I do admit it has helped out alot, but not so much in the boom boom department. OK so here is the current setup, mind you it does do double duty, movies and music, Belle mains, KLF-C7 center, RX-V1500 with matching 5 disc dvd player (forget model number), mitsubishi DA-A15DC to power the belles, sub12 and xw300d for the low end. I use the sub12 to help with the lower end, but it doesnt quite sound right for music. I am looking at getting RSW-15 sub, hopefully soon. So my question is, should I add the sub and be happy, or get some Klipschorns!! I know with the horns, its really sensitive to room placement. Which for now would only have one corner, I would have to make a false corner for the right side. Kinda torn, looking for help. I wonder if room placement would make a huge difference??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Can you borrow a sub to see if it helps? If you went directly to Khorns, the bass improvement should be there, but, you might still feel the need for a sub; some do and others don't. I've never seen or heard it discussed here, but could the djk La Scala bass bin mod (see thread http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/76770/757339.aspx#757339 and threads referenced therein) be practically applied to a Belle? I know something similar could be done, but would it work as well, would be be easily reversible, etc.? IMO, Belles are too pretty to permanently alter the appearance to gain a little more bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 Well I want the sub anyways, so I'm gona keep looking for it. I hope a forum member gets back to me on that sub. I wouldn't ever alter these belles like that, noo way! I just wonder if the Belles were in a different room, if they would have the bass I'm looking for? Is there anyone in central fl with some cornscallas??!! I would like to see how those sound, since I'm thinking I may want to try making some, but I would miss the tight bass response I get with the belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 The Belles don't go as low but I think the quality is a better of what is there.I think you have two great pairs of speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 setil, The speakers are great, that is why I now have them! I just want to improve on the low end. I think I would be happier with the khorns though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I just want to improve on the low end. I think I would be happier with the khorns though. Khorns would be a nice way to solve the lack of low bass. Of course, you could also get a horn-loaded sub. Danley has just announced that they are again selling their DTS-10 kits for $1075 + shipping: this sub will provide everything that you need, including low distortion bass - down to about 12 Hz. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I know with the horns, its really sensitive to room placement. Which for now would only have one corner, I would have to make a false corner for the right side. Having a separate lf horn (like the Danley) allows you to place the sub in a corner while placing the Belles in a position for best stereo imaging--generally out away from the corners or away from the front wall--to get "clear air" between the speakers.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Well, I am a K'horn owner and believe it's the king. That said, if I had Belles and wanted an extended and balanced low end (as opposed to "more bass," which implies more than is there), I'd add a first class sub and be done with it. Given a choice, I'd go with a horn loaded one like an HT Tuba or equivalent so as to remain in the clean, efficient, and horn loaded domain and get bass close to DC as well. JMHO... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Ever since I upgraded from my KLF-30's to the Belles, I felt I have been missing something,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bass. Now I love how the Belles sound! The soundstage it has and the top end, blows me away! Thats why I got them! I even love the fast hard bass it provides, but I need more..I feel myself going to my bedroom setup more to listen to 2 channel now. I dont like this. I thought maybe I needed more power, so I recently added a amp to the mix. I do admit it has helped out alot, but not so much in the boom boom department. OK so here is the current setup, mind you it does do double duty, movies and music, Belle mains, KLF-C7 center, RX-V1500 with matching 5 disc dvd player (forget model number), mitsubishi DA-A15DC to power the belles, sub12 and xw300d for the low end. I use the sub12 to help with the lower end, but it doesnt quite sound right for music. I am looking at getting RSW-15 sub, hopefully soon. So my question is, should I add the sub and be happy, or get some Klipschorns!! I know with the horns, its really sensitive to room placement. Which for now would only have one corner, I would have to make a false corner for the right side. Kinda torn, looking for help. I wonder if room placement would make a huge difference??? Are your crossovers any good? You might want to confirm that your speakers are working 100% before you start spending more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Ever since I upgraded from my KLF-30's to the Belles, I felt I have been missing something,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,bass. Now I love how the Belles sound! The soundstage it has and the top end, blows me away! Thats why I got them! I even love the fast hard bass it provides, but I need more..I feel myself going to my bedroom setup more to listen to 2 channel now. I dont like this. I thought maybe I needed more power, so I recently added a amp to the mix. I do admit it has helped out alot, but not so much in the boom boom department. OK so here is the current setup, mind you it does do double duty, movies and music, Belle mains, KLF-C7 center, RX-V1500 with matching 5 disc dvd player (forget model number), mitsubishi DA-A15DC to power the belles, sub12 and xw300d for the low end. I use the sub12 to help with the lower end, but it doesnt quite sound right for music. I am looking at getting RSW-15 sub, hopefully soon. So my question is, should I add the sub and be happy, or get some Klipschorns!! I know with the horns, its really sensitive to room placement. Which for now would only have one corner, I would have to make a false corner for the right side. Kinda torn, looking for help. I wonder if room placement would make a huge difference??? Are your crossovers any good? You might want to confirm that your speakers are working 100% before you start spending more money. I'll second that... Do you know when your Belles were made? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 I was going to ask that next! I think they were built around 1991, s/n 10527761 The crossovers appear to be ok, as in nothing looks swollen or leaking, caps look ok. Being that they are now 20 years old, one can not go by just looks alone. I think the next thing in order, other then a sub, is to rebuild or just replace the crossovers. Bob Crites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 For some reason I keep wanting to get a RSW-15 sub to go with this setup. I would like to keep it all Klipsch, and that subwoofer seems like it would be a good match that Klipsch makes for the Belles. I hear it is a very musical sub, and for HT, there is better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I'm using two of the above mentioned DTS10's along with LaScalas. It is a wonderful combo and I'm confident you would never miss not having Khorns. In comparison to an option like the RSW15, there simply is none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 10, 2011 Author Share Posted April 10, 2011 I just hope/wish to get around the fact that I need a sub for a Belle, a speaker that has a 15" woofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 It's not the woofer, it's the enclosure. The same woofer in a Khorn or Cornwall produces more bass. In free air it produces much less bass. In a Belle it does very well what the design was intended to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 'll second that... Do you know when your Belles were made? Good points from you and Gil. OTOH, there is still an octave rarely occupied, but occasionaly needed, below Belles in the best condition. It may only be required by a few recordings of major pipe organs, Pink Floyd (and related) and by some movies, but having that smooth extension down to the nether regions is very nice...if something of a luxury. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 There's two different goals. If you are trying to get full range performance for music, that's one goal. A subwoofer does that, but also works towards another goal. For movies, not having a subwoofer is not an option...regardless of how capable your mains are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 Thats my point! I want to listen to music on the belles and enjoy it! I have subs for the ht, will improve on that later. I just want to improve on the low end of the belles so I can enjoy music again without adding a subwoofer in the mix! Would rebuilding the crossovers, or just upgrading them solve this for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 'Would rebuilding the crossovers, or just upgrading them solve this for me? Help? Yes. Solve? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 It's not the woofer, it's the enclosure. Yes - the Belle and La Scala are designed for about a 100 Hz cutoff (horn length and horn expansion rate) and have good response down to 65-75 Hz). The DTS-10 is good down to about 17 Hz (-3 dB), and the Khorn--in good corners-- is good down to about 31 Hz (-3 dB). That extra octave of low-distortion horn-loaded subwoofer performance over the Khorn's or Jubs is extremely impressive, IMHO. I never turn my TH-SPUDs off . I cross from the Jubilees to the SPUDs at 40 Hz (24 dB/octave Linkwitz-Riley). Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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