Belles sound ok?????

[Brac]

Is that the right pic? Those are Corn Walls.

[Chris A]

Is that the right pic? Those are Corn Walls.

I believe that those are La Scalas that have been updated with grills...[]

Chris

[tragusa3]

Claude, I don't have mine corner loaded, but they are on my front wall between the LCR's. My processor has Audyssey and I can see that it set the sub distance at 28' when it is physically only 19'. I'm assuming this is one of the ingredients that it uses for time delay. Won't most modern processors have similar features?

Regarding nearfield placement. I tried it with one of mine and didn't like the experience. Whether it's non directional or not, with this kind of visceral force, I couldn't get past the source of the energy being right at my feet or my back.

[rennoc442]

Unless someone had some khorns to trade me, ill never let those belles go! I really want to build a horn sub, and find a sister to the belles for the center. I think that would be more flexible as far as placement then khorns. You could have the belles in almost any setup, compared to the khorns in the corners. And with the right sub ill be happy!

[Mallette]

Well, betwen this and the "sub selection" thread on 2 channel, I am now thinking Table Tuba. Having been exposed to the Kuivern' Klipsch Klan favorites, which seem to be mainly Danley with the Tubas not far behind, then considering form factor, cost, and my barely beginner woodworking "skills," the Table Tuba looks like it would cover that which I want most - music. I love great movie soundtracks, but there simply are only about 2 or 3 a year that do much for me and I think the TT will provide all the "whump" I really need without the PAW grumping about it.

The TT looks like the "woodworking for dummies" level and I can just get more wood and do it over until I get it right and still not be out a bunch of bucks.

I'm still open to another solution, but remember my reasoning above for my current choice. The Danley Spud is awesome. But the plans on DIY are not at a level I am comfortable with and 2700.00 suggests it ain't easy to build...or Danley is pretty crooked. I've seen nothing to suggest the latter so I am thinking that the Spud isn't a beginner project.

Bottom line is if I make it happen and it sounds good, I'll learn enough to build another something else if I get the lust for "...even more, even more!"

Dave

[tromprof]

Is that the right pic? Those are Corn Walls.

I believe that those are La Scalas that have been updated with grills...

Chris

Yep, they are La Scalas with a full grills. Way higher WAF, and it keeps the cats out.

[Brac]

OK, I gonna order the drivers for my SPUD build. If anybody gets a DTS kit, you gotta make a sketch.

[Mallette]

and it keeps the cats out.

Krankin' Jimi Hendrix is very effective as well.

Dave

[djk]

"If anybody gets a DTS kit, you gotta make a sketch."

[ClaudeJ1]

...I don't agree with corner placement of DTS 10's. You need the mouth at your feet (think very large coffee table), since the horns are 20-40 feet long to get down from 11 Hz. to 80 Hz. (THX approved for Belle's). Otherwise you will need a HUGE time delay to your Belles to line them up coherently.........better to get it close acoustially and give up corner loading for proximity...

I agree with what you said here if you add the words "without time delay correction employed on your speakers". Then it makes perfect sense to me.

Mine are delay corrected, even the driver delays in the Jubs and center Belle. It sounds outstanding to me with my TH subs in the front corners of the room behind the Jubs.

Chris

Yes, Chris, we are on the same page for sure!

[ClaudeJ1]

'm still open to another solution, but remember my reasoning above for my current choice. The Danley Spud is awesome. But the plans on DIY are not at a level I am comfortable with and 2700.00 suggests it ain't easy to build...or Danley is pretty crooked. I've seen nothing to suggest the latter so I am thinking that the Spud isn't a beginner project.

By FAR, the EASIEST sub to build is the one I'm building, a tapped horn sub with a single Eminence LAB 12" woofer. and it's about the same volume as a table tuba, just lower and wider.

[ClaudeJ1]

Claude, I don't have mine corner loaded, but they are on my front wall between the LCR's. My processor has Audyssey and I can see that it set the sub distance at 28' when it is physically only 19'. I'm assuming this is one of the ingredients that it uses for time delay. Won't most modern processors have similar features?

Regarding nearfield placement. I tried it with one of mine and didn't like the experience. Whether it's non directional or not, with this kind of visceral force, I couldn't get past the source of the energy being right at my feet or my back.

Some receivers have a limit on time delays. With LaScalas, the difference is wors since the horns are only about 2.7 feet long, but on 6-foot MWM's or 8-foot Khorns/Jubiliees, it creeps the delay time down there quite a bit more so most receivers can handle it. I helped a friend build 3 SPUDS and twins are just fine right behind the sweet spot in the room for movies, with one more in front at equal distances from the sweet spot.....but it's personal preference and a measuring system, eh?

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm still open to another solution, but remember my reasoning above for my current choice. The Danley Spud is awesome. But the plans on DIY are not at a level I am comfortable with and 2700.00 suggests it ain't easy to build...or Danley is pretty crooked. I've seen nothing to suggest the latter so I am thinking that the Spud isn't a beginner project.

Well if you look at how much labor is involved in building a Khorn, and the 8 Gran price tag, I don't think that Danley is crooked at all. The DTS-10 Kit is a little over $1,000 for a $3,000 tapped horn sub. You can build a SPUD for about 35% of that. I'm guessing that CNC cutting of the top grade plywood, and the twin 12" drivers come in at about $650 to put a DTS-10 kit together. So they only make a measly $400 for selling direct to DIY guys.

When you consider how much LABOR, time, screws, glue, and paint is infoved (plus a profit margin) is involved, $3,000 for a finished DTS-10 for the commercial market sounds about right to me. When you consider how much inferior subwoofers cost for the drivers alone, Danley's products are a bargain in comparison.

What would the cost be of a Khorn kit if it were available? Certainly plans are in the public domain for the bass bin, but it's a lot of labor and pain to build a pair, so Khorns are a bargain at $8K when compared to some of the Brit/Euro trash out there selling for $60,000.

I think it's unfair to call Danley crooked in any sense of the word. He is one of the most innovative audio engineers in the industry and the undisputed "King of Bass." He gave away for free one of his best commercial subwoofer designs and got Eminence to make a custom driver for itabout 10 years ago: the famous LAB Sub. Heck Bill Fitzmaurice even uses the LAB 12 driver for some of his bass horn plans.

[Coytee]

It probably doens't matter to anyone... Last summer, I went to Danley's place in Atlanta. I went specifically to hear the DTS-10's but, ended up hearing several things and ironically, NOT the DTS-10's. Seems they were having amp issues.

Regardless, one thing they did do was play the spud thing that was UNDER the couch I was sitting on.

Some evidently love it and I can see how it is space efficient as it saves you from building a riser and all...but... for ME, it was a weird experience.

What I mean by that is, they turned things up to a level where you could start to feel things. The couch started to vibrate accordingly. What struck me as rather odd is, I was NOT feeling anything on my body. In other words, it seemed to me that if things were cooking hard enough to start vibrating the couch that my body should feel something too....but it didn't because we were not really at THAT level yet.

It sort of felt a bit out of proportion to me.

They went on to play some of their monster subs and I've got to say....virtually every hair on my body was tingling with that. I had a big wide grin on my face and remember telling the guy "now THAT is what I'm talking about!"

So, in my book, the Spud, when used as the riser thing, didn't do much for me at all. Zero, zippo, nada.

Not trying to be negative. Just trying to accurately & honestly describe my thoughts of the day. I was bummed that the 10's were out of business since that was the whole purpose of going there.

[Mallette]

Gents, an unfortunate sequence of words. I know what I meant, but "crooked" was a hot button. My actual belief is that the time and labor justifies the cost...and that suggests the 1700.00 difference between the kit a the completed represents the fair value of the labor and materials required. Further that also suggests that the build is pretty tricky for a beginner.

Dave

[tragusa3]

Well said Claude! I enjoyed your post. Really, you can't even count the $400 as profit. I call it a design fee, with ZERO left over as profit. If you count all the various expenses of business operation, it's a complete lost leader for Danley.

Dave, the DTS10 build could not be any easier. I watched Peter's thread on building his Tuba, and my DTS builds were far easier. A screwdriver and caulk gun with adhesive...3 hours time. I'm positive that my wife could have built it.

[Mallette]

Dave, the DTS10 build could not be any easier.

Idaknow...gotta be some reason for the 170% markup over the kit.

In any event, while I am absolutely certain that 1000.00 kit is worth every penny, it's also three times what I have in my mad money at the moment. I already have a good amp and woofer, so I am only out the materials for the Tuba and I can handle that.

Further, the Tuba looks well suited to my needs and seems to have plenty of fans here.

Again, while my time is in His hands not my own, I hope to have many years left to regret my decision and do something else. I've been stable with no real audio desires (well, need a better cartridge...) for several years and that's no fun.

Got to get out more, donchaknow...

Dave

[ClaudeJ1]

Dave, For less than $300, you can build this sub........11 pieces of wood, no angle cuts, and no clamping. The Tuba is an 11 foot horn, this one is a tapped 16 footer. The tapped portion is almost 32 feet. Guess which one goes lower for the same cubic feet of space? Will be finishing mine soon. I got it off the DIY board.

[tragusa3]

I'm afraid my posts may look like I'm pushing the Danley as "THE" only answer. Don't want to sound that way. I was just trying to clarify the options, of which the Danley is only one of many. I'm sure any of these mentioned would do fine, and I think adding any of these would be more of an improvement than selling the Belles and going with Khorns.

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm afraid my posts may look like I'm pushing the Danley as "THE" only answer. Don't want to sound that way. I was just trying to clarify the options, of which the Danley is only one of many. I'm sure any of these mentioned would do fine, and I think adding any of these would be more of an improvement than selling the Belles and going with Khorns.

I agree, I think Belles and LaScalas (espeically with a K-43) have much better definition in the lower midrange than a Khorn. Adding a good horn sub, tapped or otherwise, will get you lower than Khorns and maintain that "fast bass" as it's called in some circles.