moray james Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Thebes: thank you for your kind words. Moray is my first name and James is my second name. I think that this is a really wonderful community with a wealth of knowledge information and an unusual quantity if goodwill. The forum members here make up a remarkable group of people many who have become friends and all who seem to offer friendship freely. I like this place and I like the people. I hope that I can try to help where I can and I hope to learn from those here as much as I can. I have no interest in selling cryo treatment to folks here but I do believe it makes a significant improvement in many instances. So I offer up my opinion. People listen to and for different things and we all cue into different aspects of the sound we hear. Everybody has differing likes and dislikes. We can agree to disagree and still get along and learn something new from time to time. I have been doing cryo treatment inhouse for the last ten years and exposed to it for more than ten years prior to that. So I guess you could say I have been putting my money where my belief is. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 can we have the hanger wire is just as good as high-end speaker cable argument now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I figure if it's good enough for Walt Disney it's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thanks for your kind words Moray. I meant it when I said you were good people, unlike that Fini fellow. [] Yup, lot's of good guys here and while it waxes and wanes, usually some good stuff to talk about. I am by no stretch of imagination and empiricist, or is it imperialist? I do believe that many times your ears will tell you more than what the measurements will tell you. However, when it comes to cryo, there is no empirical evidence whatsoever put forth. No charts, graphs, squiggly lines of various sorts that get the technically inclined inhabitants of this place drawers up all in a bunch. In other words, it's all hearsay. So when Sheltie Dave, a veritable god of the Klipsch Forum, says he's used the exact same tubes both treated and untreated with No Discernible Difference, than I'm thinking cryo proponents are hanging their conclusions of a very slim reed indeed. To me it's not about seeing people wasting money on magic marbles, it's about wasting money that could be spent on buying music, which we than could play on our own real magic carpet, Klipsch horn-loaded speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 can we have the hanger wire is just as good as high-end speaker cable argument now? Cheez Sal, just look at your profile. You've drunk so much cable cool-aid it ain't even funny. Probably went to bed one night in Newark and woke up in Salvador. Not to mention those little underpowered 2A3 amps ( our motto: "we invented this tube for 1920's am radio, so of course it sounds great ") Couldn't you at least try a little bit of zip cord? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thebes, you are killing me. The only thing I am good for these days is an annual prostate exam. Fortunately, I have a nice Fillipino doctor with small hands, and a wife who is a nurse, and can stitch me up when I fall on the tower of power. Here are a few of the amps I have played trying to glean information, but so far all they do is bark. Notice your 8B in there[]It is fun to throw an amp into the main rig and let it stretch its legs, showing everyone what different flavors from the tube pallete provide. I do have concerns about the empiricists vs the subjectivists camps, as cryo tends to drive responses toward the extremes of both camps. I do find it illuminating that there are very few cryo tube providers who are willing to subject Telefunkens, Mullards, Genelec, Amperex, and other proven NOS tubes to the treatment. They seem to prefer new tube, and the provider I dealt with did not seem too eager to quickly provide a replacement cryo tube when one went bad under a band aid warranty. The literature also seems to be quite varied as to what constitutes a quality cryo treatment. Moray, I wish you lived closer to the Midwest - it would be fun to run a listening session to garner feedback from some of the discriminating forum listeners. Even in our disagreement regarding cryo, it doesn't change that we gain a lifetime of pleasure from the music we experience and share.[H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 DAVE,,,WHAT A PILE OF JUNK,,I,L TRADE YOU A BUCKET OFCRYO,d FISH FOR THAT STACK OF AMPS.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Only if the fish are ceolocanths. I want one to mount above the stereo stand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 THAT WOULD MAKE THEM AS OLD AS ME,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Dave: that is one very impressive collection of gear. I have owned a couple of amp I see in there. Well Dave I am in the west up in Calgary. You are right about feedback as it not only helps confirm what we hear but what we believe and is a great reality check. I have an assortment of solidstate as well as hollowstate equipment. I have a new analog rig (mechanical linear tracker) that I have yet to get running for an assortment of reasons but have been digital for a good number of decades now. Let me know if you believe in wire and we can have some off line discussion (the web does not need any more of them). hey what is that cabinet hiding back ther with the two SS mono blocks on top of it? Could be a Karlson koupler, I like those too even if PWK said BS he was wrong about Karlson's work. Thanks for being here and for contributing your exerience. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 can we have the hanger wire is just as good as high-end speaker cable argument now? Cheez Sal, just look at your profile. You've drunk so much cable cool-aid it ain't even funny. Probably went to bed one night in Newark and woke up in Salvador. Not to mention those little underpowered 2A3 amps ( our motto: "we invented this tube for 1920's am radio, so of course it sounds great ") Couldn't you at least try a little bit of zip cord? did the zip cord thing, did each step up the line until I got to these cables. I love my old style tube amps and they sound great. I spend almost no time at all thinking about my system these days just listening to music. It took me a while to get here trying lots of amps, preamps, wires until I got a combo in my room with my musci that I love to listen to. YMMV, IMHO, etc., etc. regards, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I love my old style tube amps and they sound great. I spend almost no time at all thinking about my system these days just listening to music. I'm not tweaking much anyore either. I can't afford it and enjoy the listening far more that when I am thinking of... what can I do next.I may, however, try to build a pair of Jeff's Seth amps... but I'm afraid I would have to sell my car to do it. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 jeff was an amazing designer and builder. he took the best ideas from the golden age amps. people rave about the Seth, you could try to collect components slowly...hard to manage the desire to have the amp quickly but spread over time the costs are more palatable. warm regards, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Bruce, the next time you come through St. Louis, give me a shout. I would very much like to hear your impressions of Eric's SET amps. [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I love my old style tube amps and they sound great. I spend almost no time at all thinking about my system these days just listening to music. I'm not tweaking much anyore either. I can't afford it and enjoy the listening far more that when I am thinking of... what can I do next.I may, however, try to build a pair of Jeff's Seth amps... but I'm afraid I would have to sell my car to do it. Bruce The SETH amps are my goal as well. About to start down the DIY road myself so it may be a while before I get to it. There was a tweak to get rid of some noise do you by any chance know what that was? Dave I was in St.Louis briefly this weekend. Y'all have some strange cheese on yer pizza ; ) but Vintage Vinyl on the loop made up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I love my old style tube amps and they sound great. I spend almost no time at all thinking about my system these days just listening to music. I'm not tweaking much anyore either. I can't afford it and enjoy the listening far more that when I am thinking of... what can I do next.I may, however, try to build a pair of Jeff's Seth amps... but I'm afraid I would have to sell my car to do it. Bruce The SETH amps are my goal as well. About to start down the DIY road myself so it may be a while before I get to it. There was a tweak to get rid of some noise do you by any chance know what that was? Dave I was in St.Louis briefly this weekend. Y'all have some strange cheese on yer pizza ; ) but Vintage Vinyl on the loop made up for it. no but I can contact jeff and ask him to post something. let me dig up his contact info and get back to you. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 wow -- I haven't seen those amps in years, and there they are, perched side-by-side on top of the speaker. Some changes I made in that amp sounded (to me) pretty fabulous, and surely quicker on it's feet than another 2A3 amp I have. Those things are the closest I've heard to not having an output transformer at all, and they just seemed to sound much bigger, somehow, than their few watts might suggest. And there are some VRDs in that hollow state metropolis too. Very cool picture to say the least. You take nice care of your equipment! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm not going to dive to far into this black hole about whether they sound better or not...... I will say that I can not buy into the Cryo hype. The main reason I find it shaky is the fact that tubes consist of many different metal alloys, Mica spacers, glass and solder which all expand and contract at different rates with the application of cold and heat. Just look at the very delicate solder connections at the very bottom of the tube taking those connections to sub whatever temperature they take them too can not be good for those connections. Then look at how the glass envelop seals to the tube pins... the expansion and contract of just going form normal room temperature to hot operational temps is bad enough. Why would taking them to the other extreme be a good thing for reliability? My bet is the guys that sell Cryo treated tubes have tons of failure. I have nothing to back that up but it sure makes sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 I'm not going to dive to far into this black hole about whether they sound better or not...... I will say that I can not buy into the Cryo hype. The main reason I find it shaky is the fact that tubes consist of many different metal alloys, Mica spacers, glass and solder which all expand and contract at different rates with the application of cold and heat. Just look at the very delicate solder connections at the very bottom of the tube taking those connections to sub whatever temperature they take them too can not be good for those connections. Then look at how the glass envelop seals to the tube pins... the expansion and contract of just going form normal room temperature to hot operational temps is bad enough. Why would taking them to the other extreme be a good thing for reliability? My bet is the guys that sell Cryo treated tubes have tons of failure. I have nothing to back that up but it sure makes sense to me. Well stated and I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik2A3 Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 If some people invest in tubes that have been buried in the Antarctic for three years or the Sahara for ten, and they are happy about doing it and belive it makes a difference, so be it! It's their business. It's really no different from the single ended triode vs push-pull debate. Everyone knows that single ended amps are better, particulalrly if the coupling caps are yellow. I find that caps in blue, red, or black shrink wrap sound muddy in the midrange, where red ones always sound arguably better in the low end. Wink, smile, lol, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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