The Best H/T Receiver?

[PostMan]

Question, I will be upgrading in the near future my Receiver. What is everyones feeling on the best one? I will have the following hooked into it:

KG 5.5 Fronts

KS 15 sub

RCR 5 (total of 3) two surrounds one rear center

RC 3 center

Currently I am looking at the Yamaha RX-V1 & the Denon AVR-5800. Anyone have experience with either of these units?

[lerajie]

In my opinion the Denon AVR-5800 is the best choice.

Every review I have read placed the 5800 among the best of the best. It is regularly compared to top of the line separates. The 5800 shares several qualities with the 4800 which I own and have a great deal of experience with.

I currently have four Denon products: And AVR-4800, DVM-3700, RC-8000 and a RC-8001.

The DVD player and the receiver function brilliantly. The remote takes some getting used to though. However, once you do get accustomed to the RC-8000 it is very handy.

I have had absolutely zero problems with the Denon products I own. About the only bad thing I can say about Denon is there is next to no customer support via the web and they have been very slow in providing software for the RC-8000 remote.

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lerajie

[ColaBear]

I agree with lerajie, for I too own an AVR5800. Awesome for both home theatre and music. I have no qualms with the remote, it readily controls six additional components. The software made it easier to edit the buttons, but on the whole it works quite well. And remember, just like Klipsch, buy it from an authorized dealer. Best of luck on whatever you decide.

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*************************

KLF-30 mains

KLF-C7 denter

KLF-30 surrounds

KSP-S6 rear center

KSW200 subwoofer

Denon AVR5800

Pioneer Elite DV-09

Pioneer Elite PD-F19

RCA DTC1000

Denon MD1000

Vidikron Epoch D-600

Vutec 100" 4:3 1.5 gain

[dougdrake]

The current Stereophile Guide to Home Theater has a review on the 5800 -- glowing praise!!

[lerajie]

Holy smokes Cola that is quite the Theater you have assembled. How's that Vidikron?

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lerajie

[RossVTaylor]

When I decided to upgrade my trusty old Yamaha RXV-1070, I ended up with the 5800 and I wouldn't trade it for anything now. I like Yamaha, but I'm in love with the Denon!

[DPonder]

I know everyone here loves DENON. But I have to recommend INTEGRA 7.1 It's just like saying Ferrari or Porsche. It's what you like. The INTEGRA's around 1200

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Onkyo TX8511

ADCOM GCD-700

KLIPSCH CF3,s

KLIPSCH CF4's

KSW-300

[MattG]

Where does a person get a look at the INTEGRA 7.1 specs?

[RossVTaylor]

DPonder,

You're right about the Integra 7.1 being a great receiver. In fact, if you search some recent threads you'll find I recommended that very receiver to someone else (I think just last week... memory's going). But, the Postman was asking specifically about the RX-V1 and the 5800. I think the 5800 is the better of the two. And while the Integra is a great piece, I don't think it compares to the 5800. But we're talking 3K here, as opposed to $1100 for the Integra.

Postman,

If you're deciding between the RX-V1 and the 5800, go with the 5800. If you're looking for a great receiver at a great price, take a serious look at the Integra.

Ross

[PostMan]

Thanks for the response!!!

I will take into consideration that Integra and check it out fully.

[Stu Pidass]

I too am planning on upgrading from my prologic to a true 5.1 or 6.1 receiver. My research so far has uncovered a couple of interesting contenders. The Marantz SR-8000 is ceratinly one I will look into further. The other that has caught my attention is the Outlaw 1050. They utilize direct distribution inan effort to keep th eprice reasonable. I must say the price $599 is very attractive for a 6.1 receiver. It's only 65 watts per channel, but with efficient Klipsch, that's not an issue at all. The Marantz, on the other hand is over double the price at $1300 is a 5.1 and has 105 watts per channel. Both have rave reviews. It's going to be a very togh decision to say the least.

[Stu Pidass]

AudioReview.com has no shortage of reviews on AV receivers and the following is a sample of only one. I would encourage you to visit this site. Excellant reference. I personally am not suggesting the Denon is not a good reveiver and I'm sure there will be reviews there that will support Denon fans.

More than one reviewer of the Marantz made reference to the smooth (tube like) sound of this receiver being an excellant match for Klipsch speakers.

"I have finally decided to pursue affordable quality home theater gear. An audiophile by nature, I first sought after stereo hi-fidelity that would maximize sonic performance for the dollar. However, with a mind to the future, I wanted home theater compatibility that would not intrude or compromise on my 2 channel stereo. Fortunately, enough hi-value products with characteristics far exceeding other items at the same price point were available that allowed for several options when trying to system match. I completed this stereo system almost a year ago and waited for the right home theater products to come along that would satisfy me at target price points. Unfortunately, the level of quality I was looking for was two to three times more than I was willing to spend.

Towards the end of 1999, HT receivers with the features and capabilities I was looking for finally came on the market. The improvement in build quality wasnt where I had hoped it would be, but there still was enough of an improvement to consider these products. To equal the build quality of my stereo, I would still have to shell-out twice as much as I had budgeted.

I have to give credit to the Denon marketing machine and the reviews of their AVR-5700 and AVR-3300 receivers for making me want to audition equipment. I also want to thank the consumers that were wrapped-up in the media hype of those products that they drove-up the selling price of said equipment but managed to ignore other like-gear or not make the effort to seek them out. This was important to me because dealers would still discount the cost of the SR8000 to make it price competitive with the much sought after AVR-3300 which was being sold (back-ordered, that is) at retail cost across town. However, I did discover too that quantities retailers first shipments of the SR8000 and SR7000 were selling out as well.

I considered products from H/K, Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, and Marantz that I figured I could buy for about $1000 U.S. Dollars + tax or less. Unfortunately B&K receivers and Adcom separates were out of my range. I auditioned the Yamaha RX-V995, Denon 3300, and the Marantz SR8000 seriously. For fun I listened to a Lexicon processor mated to Adcom amps earlier when I picked-up the NHT AudioCenter-1 that matched the NHT 2.5i main speakers.

I was immediately not satisfied with the harshness of the Yamaha. Im particularly glad that I was able to listen to these on the unforgiving NHT 2.5i speakers so I could rule them out without question. I auditioned the Denon and Marantz together very briefly, but it was enough to know that they sounded quite similar and were both excellent pieces at $1000-$1200. In terms of build quality, warranty and remote (remote emphasized), the Marantz was a clear winner. This dealer and others I had talked to were unwilling to discount the Denon below retail, but was willing to provide a small discount on the Marantz. Note that he was out of stock on both pieces, but he knew when his next shipment of SR8000 would arrive, but had no idea when he would get the Denon 3300 back-orders in. That was a bit of a supply vs. demand economics lesson for me. I found it ironic that the Marantz, an overall better product could be had for almost the same price as the Denon which you would have to wait for.

A week later, I attempted a more thorough audition of the SR8000s musical capabilities at a dealer that had one left that he would sell to me for $1050. The salesperson hooked the SR8000 to a CAL DX-2 CD player and Vandersteen 2CE speakers, a reasonable system that someone purchasing an SR8000 might have. I dont know what it was about this particular set-up, but it was a bit muddy. My fiancee even commented that it didnt seem very coherent and claimed to hear background noise or static as she walked into the show/listening room with a large package of shavings for her Chinchillas from the adjacent pet store. I decided this wasnt a satisfactory audition, but my previous listen was enough for me to buy it and scrutinize it at home with my gear and return it if it didnt work-out.

Set-up was rather easy. I decided to program the remote later. Since my subwoofer is connected through a second set of main speaker outputs on my Adcom GFP-750 preamp, I had to ensure that all low-level information would be routed to the SR8000 main speaker outputs. This was done by setting the main speakers to large and the center to small. The rear speaker setting didnt appear to have much influence on the bass output at the subwoofer. I was a bit disappointed to discover that my Adcom preamps processor loop back-panel labeling and diagram in the manual didnt coincide with how the unit was actually assembled...turned out the processor input was actually the output and vice versa (a slight annoyance, but not worth the hassle of sending it back for repair and risk having something else malfunction or get the enclosure all dinged-up).

In its permanent configuration, Im using an external amp for the front two channels routed through the Adcom preamps processor loop, and the SR8000s internal amps for the center and surrounds. However, I did experiment with the SR8000 connected directly to the main speakers through its internal amps and hooked the CAL Icon Mk II CD player directly to its CD input so I could hear what the receiver and its internal amps sounded like. I also listened to it connected directly to the external Adcom GFA-5500 2-channel amp (without first passing through the preamp).

Fortunately, the SR8000 didnt sound incoherent in my system like it did where I made the purchase. I was very happy with the way it sounded. Listening to the receiver connected directly to the CD player and speakers, I found the Stereo-Direct mode to be the best way to listen to music. It provided a good image across the front. Instruments were distinctly separated from each other and defined by a hard edge that wasnt grating. I was surprised that it was able to bring out some inner detail which I didnt expect to hear through a receiver. It had a lot of punch and energy from its tight bass up through the high frequencies. The background and space between the instruments were dark and quiet as it should be. There was no hiss to muddy the sound and detail unless you had the system cranked all the way up. The midrange appeared ever so slightly emphasized, which was more noticeable at the higher volumes. The upper-midrange did suffer slightly from a little bit of grain. Sibilance was there in the high frequencies, but it was very subtle. It may have only been noticeable because the NHT 2.5i is known to be very demanding of components, revealing problem areas no matter how slight. The SR8000 did lack three-dimensionality using the 2-channel stereo-direct mode. The images were placed properly laterally, but there was no depth. At the higher party-level volume, this lack of depth caused the images to overlap one-another and obscure the detail. This is when you want to use the 5-channel stereo mode. Inner detail is lost and the high frequencies are rolled-off, but the images suddenly gain bloom and new life. The hard defining edge around the instruments is slightly muddied, but the separation actually improves since they now occupy their own space in three dimensions. Even though there is that loss of detail, the instruments seem more real. 5-Channel stereo really draws you into the music and envelopes you. I recommend you tweak the treble up a couple notches when using 5-channel stereo to force-out some perceived detail. As far as 2-channel stereo non-direct mode is concerned, dont even bother. Its like taking the worst traits of stereo-direct (lack of depth) and 5 channel (reduction in detail) and combining the two; totally un-involving and utterly worthless (unless you really, really, need those tone controls).

As a stereo pre-amp, there was improvement. So it could be worth it to upgrade to external amps in the future, particularly if you desire more power. Hooked-up to the Adcom GFA 5500 Amp through Audioquest Ruby interconnects, the slight grain in the upper midrange was reduced significantly (although there wasnt much grain there to begin with). Sibilance was also reduced some. The music was more liquid and flowed better. The background noise that could be heard at the highest volume settings appeared to be cut in half. Inner detail was present, but it may have lost a little. My guess is that the SR8000s internal amps aggressively etched the information resulting in apparent better detail, but also bringing out those negative qualities like sibilance and grain. The SR8000 did continue to show a slight emphasis in the midrange and there was no improvement in depth of image.

The casual listener who isnt concerned with soundstage would probably not notice the difference between my dedicated GFP-750 preamp and the SR8000 used as a preamp right away. When switching between the two, the sound doesnt seem to change obviously but the soundstage does. The difference in sound does become apparent the longer one listens. The depth induced by the SR8000s 5-channel stereo is easily recognized because it extends the stage from the speaker position, all the way up to the listener. Slightly unnatural, but very euphonic and enjoyable (and adjustible). The GFP-750 on the other hand creates 3 dimensions with just two speakers, without a loss of detail, and more believable, natural depth. The GFP-750 does not suffer from the overlap of images at louder volumes because there is front to back separation as well as side to side. Also, the GFP-750 puts a razor thin outline around its images, versus the SR8000 outline that seems like a hardwood frame in comparison.

I was very happy with Pro-logic performance while watching VHS. Movie DSP was cute, and Hall DSP was absolutely the most perfect thing for certain concert videos. I was astounded as I watched Dead Can Dance _Toward the Within_ concert video. Just incredible. 5-channel stereo works very well for music videos on VHS. I had some new-found fun watching the Cleopatra Records _Industrial Nation_ and _Goth Box_ videos. Alas, no mode could cure the poor audio on Bauhaus _Shadows of Light_ video.

I was floored when I hooked-up a DVD player for the first time at home. Im using the Marantz DV7000 in my system. I decided not to use the SR8000 as a video switcher and ran the Tributary Silver video cable direct from the DV7000 to the television. It seemed like the more economical thing to do, along with maximizing the video performance of the system (my current TV only has a composite video input and is a small 20-inch). My first DVD experience with this system was the German movie _Run Lola Run_. Caution: some viewers may be winded after watching this movie! It was almost like watching a movie-length music video because of the pulsing synthpop soundtrack (techno-like, just not as obnoxious). The voice-over english dialog took away from understanding the characters real emotion and was, of course, very detached. After switching to the german dialog with english subtitles, all was well. Dialog was rich and detailed, the musical soundtrack made you want to get up and thrash about the room (hey, who put this nightclub in my house?), and the few crashes in the movie were very startling. I watched Ronin next...thats what people do when they get DVD players, right? That story was just an excuse for cool gunfights and wild car chases. But hey, I grew-up on Dukes of Hazard, so you know I enjoyed the chase scenes alot. To make-up for that plot though, Ill have to buy something dark and humurous by Tim Burton.

If your budget for a receiver or preamp is only at the $1000 price point and you want Surround and quality sound for music, then the SR8000 is definitely for you. If you really care a lot about music and were planning to spend $1500-$2000 on a preamp/amp, integrated, or receiver and only wanted surround as a bonus, then your decision is tougher. I was faced with this decision last year and went for the dedicated music system first.

The Marantz SR8000 is an excellent receiver. It is perfect for upgrading to multi-channel surround if you are an audiophile with a dual purpose system and have a preamp with a built-in processor loop. Its built better and looks better than other competing receivers. The sound is much better than I had imagined possible in a receiver that cost me $1050. One thing I am curous about and should have checked was the sonics of the SR7000 in comparison to the SR8000. Spec wise, there does not seem to be any significant difference. Externally, the only noticable differenes is the HDAM label on the front, the copper chassis, and the gold-plated outputs on the rear.

Audition this receiver and be happy!"

[Mystery Guest]

Go with the Denon. In my opinion they don't come any better.

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The token female for the Klipsch Fan Club Tour 2001

[rhawki]

OK, i'll buck the system here!

After getting my KLF-30's, it was time to pick up a receiver, and i had pounded audioreview for a few months trying to figure out what i wanted. I finally settled on the Denon 4800 - what a disappointment! Could have just been a bad unit, but it was really grating and had NO bass no matter what. I even had the audio shop guy out and still ended up returning it. I'm still bummed about that - i really wanted that Denon.

Anyway, i moved on to a Yamaha RX-V1000, and then traded up to the 3000. WOW. Love it!!! Would like to up to the V1 but probably won't. The V1 has the Burr-Brown DAC's and some other quality upgrades. BUT, i still can't figure out where people get this "bright" image from regarding Yamahas? I heard bright and harsh on the Denon, but no matter how much i crank the Yamaha, it's still smooth and easy on the ears. I couldn't take the Denon for more than 5 minutes... Had a bud bring over an older Onkyo, which also sounded good, so moving on...

Don't know a lot about it, but you may wanna look at the Onkyo 989. Comperable to the 5800, although, i never got to the point of listening to either.

I would also advise checking out a Marantz SR-19. Had the pleasure of listening to one during my receiver search (compared it to the V1), and it really sounded good. A couple guys at the shop had the (SR-18, VERY similar) and loved them. Again, a very smooth clean sound, and if i were gonna upgrade from my Yamaha, i would probably go with the SR-19.

Oh yea, when i mentioned my issues with the Denon at the shop where i got my Yamaha, the guy said that, other than the 5800, the Denon amps are made by Marantz! Anyone know anything about this?

-Rich

[Stu Pidass]

I have been trying to decide between the Denon, the Marantz SR-8000 and the Outlaw. It's been a very tough decision.

If your budget for a receiver or preamp is only at the $1000 price point and you want Surround and quality tube like sound for music, then the SR8000 is definitely for you.

Having said that you won't go wrong with any one of these manufacturers.

[DPonder]

Dude get a PIONEER!!! hehehehehehe.

I'm glad to see that at least we all are recommending quality hear, regardless of the price differences. You probably can't go wrong with most of the units mentioned here. It boils down to personal preference. I'm sure we can agree on that.

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Onkyo TX8511

ADCOM GCD-700

KLIPSCH CF3,s

KLIPSCH CF4's

KSW-300

[Mikekid]

OK all you Denon dudes!!!..(and Gals!)

I have an ANCIENT yamaha RXV2090 that sounds fantastic to MY ears in MY living room through MY speakers...and it has aged beautifully...Take that!!!

Yamaha & Klipsch #1 (Well, the older stuff anyway!)

Mike

[ShapeShifter]

Postman,

While at AudioReview.com site take a look at the reviews on the new NAD T 761.

I purchased one last month after a 6 month review of other similarly priced receivers. Price to performance it's definitely a winner. Music first is its strong point. It does a great job in the H/T realm as well. It's a hi Amp receiver, the listed power is understated.

It's European design produces a warm sound, I find this reduces the brightness of the Klipsch speakers.

It's well worth considering, IMHO of course.

ShapeShifter

My System:

NAD T 761

NAD 2400THX AMP

RF-3's

RC-3

RS-3's

KSW-12

SONY CDP-CA80-ES

SONY MDS-JE320

SONY DCP-S530D

SONY TC-K44IIES

MITSUBISHI 52" PROJ

MITSUBISHI VHS HI-FI

SONY RM-AV2100

IXOS & TMC INTERCONNECTS

IXOS SPEAKER CABLES

[jeguzik]

I would look into the Pioneer Elite THX certified reciever line. I compared a bunch of receivers including: Denon, Onkyo, Onkyo Integra and Yamaha. The Elite just sounded the best to me with my Klipsch speakers. The Elite (1st), Integra (2nd) and the Denon a close (3rd). I did not like the Yamaha's at all.

- End of Rant -

[Robert Gervais]

Another vote for Denon. I have the 5700 and have heard the 5800. You can't go wrong.