Alternate to Rc-7?

[Rich_Guy]

Home theater has continously grown throughout the years. First came stereo TV sets, then the first home surround sound receiver systems, these used the usual towers for fronts and had 2 tiny little surround speakers that came with the new surround sound receivers, these 2 surround sound speakers were powered with about 10 watts and the center channel was not supplied any power it was usually intended that you use your TV's own speakers for the center channel sound. These early systems had horrible timbre matching.

[Heritage_Head]

Home theater has continously grown throughout the years. First came stereo TV sets, then the first home surround sound receiver systems, these used the usual towers for fronts and had 2 tiny little surround speakers that came with the new surround sound receivers, these 2 surround sound speakers were powered with about 10 watts and the center channel was not supplied any power it was usually intended that you use your TV's own speakers for the center channel sound. These early systems had horrible timbre matching.

Lol that reminds me of the audio source surround sound processor

I bought in the mid-90s. Junk would be a complement when describing it. It also

cost me like $400 bucks if I recall. [:@]

[Brunt]

Ideally for sound quality all the speakers would be identical (except the sub), however in 99% of homes this would be absolutely impossible and completely out of the question or just impractical for most people and if this was the way home theater speakers were designed there probably wouldn't even be any home theater today as too few people would do this to their homes.

Disagree slightly. Why couldn't Klipsch just make cheaper versions of it's THX system? No bulky towers and you could use different drivers, tweeters, crossovers etc to cut cost down the line.

The thx system is 100% built for ht. The floor standing designs are for both ht and 2 channel. And I’m honestly a little surprised they haven’t built a smaller more affordable version.

I'd be down for a THX Select II HT from Klipsch!

I think the center is kind of the deal breaker in that system in most set ups. Plus imo you could spend way less than that buy internet direct subs and have a better set up. I have heard thx system and it does sound great though.

Well, maybe the center channel is an issue for people who have theater setups in their living room, but with a dedicated HT I'm not sure the size is an issue...wouldn't be in my setup. The real issue for most I would think is the price tag![+o(]

Definitely agree about the subs too.

[Youthman]

Well, maybe the center channel is an issue for people who have theater setups in their living room, but with a dedicated HT I'm not sure the size is an issue

I have a dedicated theater room. A tower center would not work unless I replaced my screen with an acoustic transparent screen and placed the speaker behind the screen. To buy another RF-83 and an AT screen would not be worth it to me as I don't believe I would hear the $1000 worth of a difference.

[cornfedksboy]

Well, maybe the center channel is an issue for people who have theater setups in their living room, but with a dedicated HT I'm not sure the size is an issue

I have a dedicated theater room. A tower center would not work unless I replaced my screen with an acoustic transparent screen and placed the speaker behind the screen. To buy another RF-83 and an AT screen would not be worth it to me as I don't believe I would hear the $1000 worth of a difference.

+1

Even the THX Ultra II is designed for an accoustic transparent front screen, which means an additional wall and probably an increase in HT room sq ft (to accomadate the loss due to the new wall). The simple act of making a vertical center (even one as small as the KL-650) requires a drastic increase in budget when compared to a horizontal center. That is, of course, unless you use a 19" Sylvania for your screen.

[JasonJCarney]

Again I apologized for offending anyone. I just disagree with the 7ii being better than the 64ii when used as a center. Half of u r going to cross them at 80hz anyway so what would be the point of the dinner plate woofers on the 7ii's? Lol

As for sending my amp back... I am keeping it. Not because I can hear even the slightest difference though. seriously. What the amp does offer me is a cooler running onkyo and a cool looking piece of av equipment. It's like owning a monster power conditioner vs a strip breaker.... Gives you some piece of mind as well that you avr is running cooler and that you are getting top quality power. If you want me to lie and craft a beautiful review on how it made my speakers "come to life" I can but I prefer to give my honest review. Again I did preface my thoughts on the emotiva by saying that I have a small room and probably cannot take full advantage of it's abilities. Same with my speakers. Honestly I'm not seeing a big difference between the 62's, 63's, or 7's. Now the 7's are beautiful... Cool factor and aesthetics are high. But overall sound in a small room is not much better than the 62ii's I had. Still great IMO but I just can't really let them breath so to speak. I know a local guy on this forum with a much more appropriate room size for HT and in his room it would probably make a bigger difference. $1200 difference? Who knows but a difference I'm sure.

Could I hear a difference between an extra rf vs the equivalent RC? Probably not blindfolded. But please someone tell me why klipsch uses a tapered array crossover in the 64 if an rf 7 single crossover would sound better? Why did klipsch go away from the two 8 inch drivers for a center channel (rc7) for a wider 4 driver setup with 2 cross points? I understand the physical aspects of fitting it in a livingroom HT design. But I just don't believe that's the only reason.

BTW I don't think that all the vocal come from the center. Not sure why someone would even make that comment? Seems a little juvinile to me.

[Rich_Guy]

Ideally for sound quality all the speakers would be identical (except the sub), however in 99% of homes this would be absolutely impossible and completely out of the question or just impractical for most people and if this was the way home theater speakers were designed there probably wouldn't even be any home theater today as too few people would do this to their homes.

Disagree slightly. Why couldn't Klipsch just make cheaper versions of it's THX system? No bulky towers and you could use different drivers, tweeters, crossovers etc to cut cost down the line.

You missed my point, yes it can be done. However the market is much lower for this type of system, low enough that if all the original home theater systems were designed this way too few people would have used them for it to have become as popular as it is today and it may not have even caught on at all.

The current array of speakers is excellent they sound great and fit better and can be used more conveniently than all the speakers being the identical size and this design sells more easily to a mass market, very few people would use 5, 7 or more large identical speakers in their homes.

[JasonJCarney]

Cornfed... What does the size of the screen matter? I'm not following, sorry.

[Rich_Guy]

Cornfed... What does the size of the screen matter? I'm not following, sorry.

A large (tall) center speaker would need to either place the screen very high up and or make it smaller, unless you were using an accoustically tranparent screen and the speaker(s) is located behind the screen which is sometimes done, more often in large theaters. For convenience it is easier to use a center speaker that is horizontally designed which is easier to place either under or above the screen.

[jephdood]

BTW I don't think that all the vocal come from the center. Not sure why someone would even make that comment? Seems a little juvinile to me.

Juvenile? Seriously man? Whatever. Enjoy the conversation guys. [:^)]

[JasonJCarney]

Cornfed.. True. I have read the AT screens are not as nice though. I wonder how 3 rb81's would sound ?

[Heritage_Head]

Again I apologized for offending anyone. I just disagree with the 7ii being better than the 64ii when used as a center. Half of u r going to cross them at 80hz anyway so what would be the point of the dinner plate woofers on the 7ii's? Lol

As for sending my amp back... I am keeping it. Not because I can hear even the slightest difference though. seriously. What the amp does offer me is a cooler running onkyo and a cool looking piece of av equipment. It's like owning a monster power conditioner vs a strip breaker.... Gives you some piece of mind as well that you avr is running cooler and that you are getting top quality power. If you want me to lie and craft a beautiful review on how it made my speakers "come to life" I can but I prefer to give my honest review. Again I did preface my thoughts on the emotiva by saying that I have a small room and probably cannot take full advantage of it's abilities. Same with my speakers. Honestly I'm not seeing a big difference between the 62's, 63's, or 7's. Now the 7's are beautiful... Cool factor and aesthetics are high. But overall sound in a small room is not much better than the 62ii's I had. Still great IMO but I just can't really let them breath so to speak. I know a local guy on this forum with a much more appropriate room size for HT and in his room it would probably make a bigger difference. $1200 difference? Who knows but a difference I'm sure.

Could I hear a difference between an extra rf vs the equivalent RC? Probably not blindfolded. But please someone tell me why klipsch uses a tapered array crossover in the 64 if an rf 7 single crossover would sound better? Why did klipsch go away from the two 8 inch drivers for a center channel (rc7) for a wider 4 driver setup with 2 cross points? I understand the physical aspects of fitting it in a livingroom HT design. But I just don't believe that's the only reason.

BTW I don't think that all the vocal come from the center. Not sure why someone would even make that comment? Seems a little juvinile to me.

The tapered array crossover is specifically for the problems
that are created when you turn a speaker on its side. It has nothing to do with
it being a center channel speaker. It’s used to fix an issue not give it an
advantage over a 2 way design like the rf-7ii. A little research on the topic
and you would know this.

[willland]

But please someone tell me why klipsch uses a tapered array crossover in the 64 if an rf 7 single crossover would sound better?

Klipsch went to a tapered array design(2.5 way) to eliminate the comb filtering that can occur with horizontally opposed speakers. Here is a few threads that explain things a bit.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/78827/782136.aspx#782136

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/131169/1326871.aspx#1326871

Why did klipsch go away from the two 8 inch drivers for a center channel (rc7) for a wider 4 driver setup with 2 cross points?

I believe a 6.5 inch driver will produce better midrange frequencies than an 8 inch especially with dialog which is a center channels main function.

Bill

[Brunt]

Cornfed... What does the size of the screen matter? I'm not following, sorry.

A large (tall) center speaker would need to either place the screen very high up and or make it smaller, unless you were using an accoustically tranparent screen and the speaker(s) is located behind the screen which is sometimes done, more often in large theaters. For convenience it is easier to use a center speaker that is horizontally designed which is easier to place either under or above the screen.

Yeah...but what about a smaller square shape like the thx center? I wasn't referring to another tower...you're telling me that price aside, most here couldn't fit thx frontstage in their room without transparent screen? I disagree...that's all.

[JasonJCarney]

Ok if that's true the how would an rf7 sound better than the rc64 as a center channel ?

But please someone tell me why klipsch uses a tapered array crossover in the 64 if an rf 7 single crossover would sound better?

Klipsch went to a tapered array design(2.5 way) to eliminate the comb filtering that can occur with horizontally imposed speakers. Here is a few threads that explain things a bit.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/78827/782136.aspx#782136

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/131169/1326871.aspx#1326871

Why did klipsch go away from the two 8 inch drivers for a center channel (rc7) for a wider 4 driver setup with 2 cross points?

I believe a 6.5 inch driver will produce better midrange frequencies than an 8 inch especially with dialog which is a center channels main function.

Bill

[Heritage_Head]

Ok if that's true the how would an rf7 sound better than the rc64 as a center channel ?

But please someone tell me why klipsch uses a tapered array crossover in the 64 if an rf 7 single crossover would sound better?

Klipsch went to a tapered array design(2.5 way) to eliminate the comb filtering that can occur with horizontally imposed speakers. Here is a few threads that explain things a bit.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/78827/782136.aspx#782136

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/131169/1326871.aspx#1326871

Why did klipsch go away from the two 8 inch drivers for a center channel (rc7) for a wider 4 driver setup with 2 cross points?

I believe a 6.5 inch driver will produce better midrange frequencies than an 8 inch especially with dialog which is a center channels main function.

Bill

I love a good debate as much as anyone. But I think we are just

beating a dead horse at this point. Music like movies both have voices it’s no different.

And Jason I really feel you’re arguing just argue at this point. No offence but

you almost sound like people that argue that hitler was a some kind of genius

and not a mad man when you take some of these sides. [6]

[cornfedksboy]

Cornfed... What does the size of the screen matter? I'm not following, sorry.

A large (tall) center speaker would need to either place the screen very high up and or make it smaller, unless you were using an accoustically tranparent screen and the speaker(s) is located behind the screen which is sometimes done, more often in large theaters. For convenience it is easier to use a center speaker that is horizontally designed which is easier to place either under or above the screen.

Yeah...but what about a smaller square shape like the thx center? I wasn't referring to another tower...you're telling me that price aside, most here couldn't fit thx frontstage in their room without transparent screen? I disagree...that's all.

I have a dedicated HT room. With that in mind, I placed the screen at the appropriate height for ideal viewing and then found the largest screen (width-wise) I could fit between two RF-82s. It's a 110" diagnol. At 120" my towers block the screen, so 110 was my height. I went with a 16:9 screen for price/use reasons and I am left with 20" of floor to screen clearance. If I wanted my center on the floor, I could use the THX center. I could not use the THX R/L speakers w/o decreasing my screen size. That's me.

Several companies do make vertical centers, but they don't have the same WAF. As an example of the importance of this, JJC has a very expensive amp and went from RF-62s to RF-7 IIs for purely for the coolness factor. How cool is it to have an awkward square center sitting on your floor? My buddy uses a KG center in his system and it sounds fantastic! I wouldn't hesitate to use a Heresy with a pair of Cornwall's or LaScalla's, but the horizontal center has much better aesthetics.

Again, the centers are heavily engineered to compensate for the horizontal configuration, and through that engineering, they sound great and I wouldn't hesitate to use a 64 with 7s. I'm okay with the opinion that the 64 sounds better than a 7 in the center, but for the BEST POSSIBLE timbre matching, three identical are king. For those that don't care of timbre matching (JJC) that's great. The 64 is one d*** fine center that any audiophile would be pleased to have in his/her system! I think we can all agree on that (except that there have been some recent threads where people have had issues with their 64, so even that is debatable).

[willland]

Ok if that's true the how would an rf7 sound better than the rc64 as a center channel ?

I do think when the L-C-R speakers are exactly the same and set at the same crossover point and amplified the same, it has to sound better. The front soundstage would be as completely seamless as possible. As seamless as I want to think my front soundstage is(RF-63---RC-64---RF-63), three RF-63's will blend better, just not logistically practical in my space.

Bill

[Heritage_Head]

Ok if that's true the how would an rf7 sound better than the rc64 as a center channel ?

I do think when the L-C-R speakers are exactly the same and set at the same crossover point and amplified the same, it has to sound better. The front soundstage would be as completely seamless as possible. As seamless as I want to think my front soundstage is(RF-63---RC-64---RF-63), three RF-63's will blend better, just not logistically practical in my space.

Bill

I think with the old 64 and the rf-63 its going to be pretty

close. All the same drivers and the boxes are closer to size then say the rf-82

and the rc-62. But you’re right it would be a perfect match. It’s just impractical

in about 95% of rooms. If they didn’t make centers the way they do people would

be running 4.1 systems. And just running the fronts as a ghost center. (That’s what

I would do)

[Brunt]

Cornfed... What does the size of the screen matter? I'm not following, sorry.

A large (tall) center speaker would need to either place the screen very high up and or make it smaller, unless you were using an accoustically tranparent screen and the speaker(s) is located behind the screen which is sometimes done, more often in large theaters. For convenience it is easier to use a center speaker that is horizontally designed which is easier to place either under or above the screen.

Yeah...but what about a smaller square shape like the thx center? I wasn't referring to another tower...you're telling me that price aside, most here couldn't fit thx frontstage in their room without transparent screen? I disagree...that's all.

I have a dedicated HT room. With that in mind, I placed the screen at the appropriate height for ideal viewing and then found the largest screen (width-wise) I could fit between two RF-82s. It's a 110" diagnol. At 120" my towers block the screen, so 110 was my height. I went with a 16:9 screen for price/use reasons and I am left with 20" of floor to screen clearance. If I wanted my center on the floor, I could use the THX center. I could not use the THX R/L speakers w/o decreasing my screen size. That's me.

Several companies do make vertical centers, but they don't have the same WAF. As an example of the importance of this, JJC has a very expensive amp and went from RF-62s to RF-7 IIs for purely for the coolness factor. How cool is it to have an awkward square center sitting on your floor? My buddy uses a KG center in his system and it sounds fantastic! I wouldn't hesitate to use a Heresy with a pair of Cornwall's or LaScalla's, but the horizontal center has much better aesthetics.

Again, the centers are heavily engineered to compensate for the horizontal configuration, and through that engineering, they sound great and I wouldn't hesitate to use a 64 with 7s. I'm okay with the opinion that the 64 sounds better than a 7 in the center, but for the BEST POSSIBLE timbre matching, three identical are king. For those that don't care of timbre matching (JJC) that's great. The 64 is one d*** fine center that any audiophile would be pleased to have in his/her system! I think we can all agree on that (except that there have been some recent threads where people have had issues with their 64, so even that is debatable).

I get your point.