Schu Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 can someone please explain to me the technical reasons why this set up should NOT work? Integrated receiver, with four similar timbre speakers set up in this fashion... A circuit with Cornwalls, and B circuit with Heresys. Now I realize that switching the A and B circuits on and off one could enjoy both speakers independently from each other... HOWEVER, why is it a bad idea to switch both A and B circuits on simultaneously to listen to 2 channel audio with all four speakers as fronts? what are the technical reasons? I have tried this, and I do not see a timing issue, a timbre issue, echo issue... as yet. Am I missing something? would there be a better option for running multiple speaker sets as fronts simultaneously? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 There really is no reason why you can't do this. Who told you you couldn't?? I did this for many years with a Carver Receiver MXR-150 I've had since it was new in 88' and it worked out fine. The only thing you may notice is that the clarity isn't what it usually is when only one pair of the speakers are turned on. Here's why: when you tunr on both sets of speakers the power that is supplied to set (A), for instance, is devided into two to supply the ( set. So say the receiver is rated at 100wpc but you have all four speakers on. Now it's only running 50watts max to each speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 thanks... I guess no one is telling why I can not do it. but i am getting hammered on another forum fro pointing out this set up(which is my current set up) concerning the watt issue(I am a newbie so please :-), I thought if you wired the speakers on one circuit(two left and two right on the A channel) that would half the output and ohms... but mine are set up on their own independent circuits and output and the same level with either channel switched off, seem equal or similar. I have not noticed any disadvantage as yet sonically except for a extremely small loss in clarity when running all four as opposed to running just the cornwalls. it seems taboo for some folks so I was wondering if I am being an idiot here :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 What you are doing is in effect two 2channel stereo speaker setups. I do not think I would prefer it; (I also do not generally like 5.1 stereo on my receiver). For music; it is 2 channel all the way; but if you like it; that's what counts! My .02 Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I see no issue with it. In my shop, I have 2 H1s and 2 JBL 4311s hooked up as A and B to a 70s vintage Mirantz receiver. I run both A and B at the same time and it all works well. Find out what the other forum (or link the thread here so we can go see it) is all up in arms about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think you should be fine, also. Maybe "Their" concern is the fact that the more speakers you have running the same signal, the more "congested" it will sound. Frequencies will be bouncing around the room and colliding with each other, make the clarity, a little more muddy. But like "Cal", if you have a big enough shop or room, this shouldn't be a problem. If you are in a small room, it will be more noticeable! If it sounds good to you, it is good! [Y] Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I imagine the biggest grype one would have against such a setup would concern acoustic interference between the multiple drivers, adversely effecting imaging. Two co-located speakers will boost output by ~6db if fed the same power. You don't get the volume increase because each speaker is seeing less power when driving both pairs simultaneously, as the Mighty Favog explained above. When running two pairs of speakers, you increase current demand from your amp, and it will probably run hotter driving both than just driving one pair. If it doesn't run excessively hot, you're probably safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 more "congested" it will sound. Frequencies will be bouncing around the room and colliding with each other, make the clarity, a little more muddy. Dennie I think there maybe a lot of truth to this. my room is about 20x25 and clairity does sound very very slightly better with only the CW's running, but the set up seems more full with all four speakers firing. but sound stage is way out front and very demensional. I guess four CW's wired the same way might be to much??? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Placement is as such... those CW's are about 20'ish feet apart. What I did have to do was to increase the levels from the CW's channel in order to balance out the Heresys slightly more "shril" sound(specially since you are sitting directly in front of the heresys) and then back down the main volume level on all during playback. the way this integrated receiver works is the B channel is running of the "Front High"terminals. i'd also think getting the heresys up off the floor about 6-10" would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Perhaps it's not that it can't work but in how your amp behaves. Look at the specs for watts/ohms/channels driven. Driving 4 full range speakers at high SPL may send your amp into clipping and damage your speakers or amp Klipsch are efficient and may not need a lot of current but thier impedance may present a difficult load for the amp.. (As long as this is a STEREO and not home theater/multichannel amp) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Your system will generally not be any better than your worst loudspeaker and the imaging will be quite a mess. Generally this is only done to get increased SPLs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hey Russ, I haven't seen you in a while and as always, it is good to see you! can someone please explain to me the technical reasons why this set up should NOT work?Integrated receiver, with four similar timbre speakers set up in this fashion... A circuit with Cornwalls, and B circuit with Heresys. Now I realize that switching the A and B circuits on and off one could enjoy both speakers independently from each other... HOWEVER, why is it a bad idea to switch both A and B circuits on simultaneously to listen to 2 channel audio with all four speakers as fronts?what are the technical reasons?I have tried this, and I do not see a timing issue, a timbre issue, echo issue... as yet. Am I missing something? would there be a better option for running multiple speaker sets as fronts simultaneously?thanks Now, let me ask this... What is your reason for having 4 front speakers? SPL? Two "center channel" speakers are better than one? Bigger soundstage? Is this for HT? Or 2...errrr....4 channel stereo? You ask: "would there be a better option for running multiple speaker sets as fronts simultaneously?" As has been mentioned, "multiple speakers" is usually for higher spl, not better sound. If you're just looking for "More Sound" in the room, that's cool and I think you are getting it. But if you're looking for Clarity, Sound-stage, Accuracy, etc..., typically, the less speakers, the better. Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 29, 2011 Moderators Share Posted July 29, 2011 Sounds like you need to sell all four and get something bigger ? [] Bigger is better than more. But I don't see a big problem doing what your doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFord Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 A+B usually puts the sets in parallel, so two 8 ohm speakers would make a 4 ohm load on each channel of the amp, two 4 ohm speakers would make a 2 ohm load on each channel, and depending on the speakers and the amp, the amp might get hot or just shut down. I don't think the sound result would be good, but it should be louder. I was at a party at a stereo shop one night and the owners hooked up every pair of speakers in the big main room (30x40) to some monster amp and it played for hours, but I've owned nice cars cheaper than that amp. It was kind of festive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 If a receiver has the feature of being able to switch in either pair of speakers, or use both simultaneously..............then there is absolutely nothing wrong from a technical standpoint to be doing that as long as you follow the manual and use proper impedance speakers. The REAL technical fault with using both speakers A and speakers B is what is called "comb filtering". There are 2 channels in a stereo setup. There should only be 1 right and 1 left. If you use 2 rights and 2 lefts, then you have 2 point sources for each channel and destroy the intended stereo image cues. If you know what you are listneing for this is apparent..........if not and it sounds good to YOU............then ROCK ON BABY............and use all 4 speakers. I believe the intended use of the speakers A&B feature is to be able to have a second pair of speakers IN ANOTHER ROOM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 If you know what you are listneing for this is apparent..........if not and it sounds good to YOU............then ROCK ON BABY............and use all 4 speakers. ...way to insult the guy..[^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 There are many characteristics of audio, especially different types of distortion that take a trained ear to recognize and identify by name. It's like tasting food and being able to pick out the individual ingredients that were used to season it. Some people are very good at it because they trained themselves for it and are more evolved in those skills. Last week when I carried my cornwalls outdoors as I often do on weekends to play some tunes outdoors I looked at my Peach preamp and realized that for the last couple of weekends I had it in MONO..........and had no idea. Of course once I switched it to stereo I could hear the difference............but when it was turned on in mono and left there from the start I really didn't notice until I looked at the settings on the preamp. .............just an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Perhaps I should include more info. Just to get all the cards out on the table. My shop setup is more for noise rather than critical listening though it does sound good in the "sweet spot". My shop is 30 feet wide, 75 feet long and 20 feet high with fiberglas batt insulation on all surfaces other than the concrete floor. When the height is taken into account, the total volume of space is larger than the combined volume of TWO average size homes! I have a mezizine (sp) ten feet off the ground at one end of the shop, it is 20' x 20' square. The Heresys are located on pallet racking, on either corner of the Mez which is pushed into one corner of the "far" side of the shop on one of the 30' walls. So the Heresys are 17 feet off of the concrete floor and 7 feet above the floor of the mez, 3 1/2 feet from the back wall and 20' appart. The JBLs are located on the next shelf down from the Heresys, about 4' and appx the same place as the Heresys. The receiver is rated for something like 30wpc, not huge gobs of power. Running all 4 speakers at the same time, I get a very nice SPL in the building, loud enough to easily and clearly hear the music, even over running machinery with the receiver set to about 1/4 volume. At 1/2 volume it is pretty darn loud, so much so that it is uncomfortable to be in the room at the same time. From the mez looking into the shop. As the speakers are firing across the 75' span, If I listen closely, I can hear an out of time echo from the far wall but due to the insulation, it is not anoying if you are not listening criticaly. In the sweet spot, up on the mez centered between the speakers with your back to the 55' of space behind you, the sound is very enjoyable indeed with very good imaging. When you get out into the "room" though, imaging goes to heck and you might as well be in mono for all the good "stereo" is doing there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 From the front door to the back. The JBLs are visable center top of photo. The Heresys are on the shelf above them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 A little better view lkg to front door from mez. For scale, that roll up door is 10' high and 10' wide. The table by the door on the right is 6 foot square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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