The Great not so much debate Sub Debate!

[SuBXeRo]

I have done a bit of researching on different subwoofer types and pros/cons and this and that and using what experience i have. As seen in my other thread about bass extension http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/157579.aspx, that is in tandem with this thread.

Front Firing, Ported/Vented or Downfiring all achieve the same thing...Bass. Although they all achieve the same thing and bass is "omnidirectional", i think suffice it to say there is a different sound to each of them.

To start the debate i wanted to offer a few questions:

1. Why arent downfiring subs more common? Wouldnt this sub be better for omnidirectional bass since the cone is not directly radiating at you?

2. The concept of a port or vent is known and understood but what added value does it give the sub aside from its physical function, what and how does it add to the sound you hear? Does it make it less localized sounding and help with dispersion? Side, down rear or front firing, does this make a difference as well?

3. Sealed subs are simplest, aside from tight bass, what perks for they have against vented/ported subs. Are they really as...diverse of an audio component since they are not taking advantage of being ported/vented.

4. Are any of these subs especially good for those who want to avoid a directional feeling of bass or are there any designs that can help to make things sound more even aside from room treatments and doing the sub crawl?

[Quiet_Hollow]

1. Why arent downfiring subs more common? Wouldnt this sub be better for omnidirectional bass since the cone is not directly radiating at you?

Why should they be? You can accomplish the same result with a non-downfiring, direct radiating subwoofer by pointing it at a wall.

2. The concept of a port or vent is known and understood but what added value does it give the sub aside from its physical function, what and how does it add to the sound you hear? Does it make it less localized sounding and help with dispersion? Side, down rear or front firing, does this make a difference as well?

Holy crap, that's a lot of question right there.

1. It increases the sensitivity by re-radiating some of the energy in the driver's backwave.

2. It only makes the subwoofer more localized if it's adding higher harmonic content to what's already being radiated. Trying to control dispersion at subwoofer frequencies is a moot point indoors.

3. With a direct radiator subwoofer, being pointed away from you will keep you from getting pelted with the distortion coming off the driver cone to a certain extent.

The biggest mistakes made by most subwoofer owners is running the subwoofer too loud (I want it flipp'n loud!), and setting the crossover point too high (...but my AVR is set to 80 Hz so that's where I also set the subwoofer's low pass filter, right?) . This leads to a sub that is very easy to pick out. There's no book on how to do this, and when someone tells you, "Just mess around with it until it sounds good..." it won't help you get it sounding correct because most people have no established metric in which to compare.You need an SPL meter, a multimeter, and some quite time with your system to sort this stuff out ideally.

3. Sealed subs are simplest, aside from tight bass, what perks for they have against vented/ported subs. Are they really as...diverse of an audio component since they are not taking advantage of being ported/vented.

They are simple to build.

What defines "tight" bass? Low distortion, linear phase response, phase shift, the Q of the driver alignment, frequency response? "Tight" is a combination of physical characteristics of not only the design, but how it's implemented. In a small room, a good sealed design can be tough to beat. In larger spaces, getting undistorted output at high SPL's from a sealed box in the sub-bass region starts to get comparatively expensive.

4. Are any of these subs especially good for those who want to avoid a directional feeling of bass or are there any designs that can help to make things sound more even aside from room treatments and doing the sub crawl?

Subs that emit the lowest harmonic distortion natively are going to have the edge in terms of localization from the get go. That would be folded horn subs and servo-controlled direct radiating designs. Apart from that, it once again boils down to getting them setup correctly. For example, the finest subwoofer will be easy to pick out if the delay of the main speakers isn't set correctly, resulting in "transient mud".

A lot of this information is available in pro-sound handbooks. Home audio is a great hobby, but when people start paying for you to deliver a product, you've got to know what and how you're going to go about accomplishing the mission at the minimum cost. Fortunately for us, the physics don't change between the two scenarios, only the goals.

[Youthman]

Yeah....what he said. []

[Heritage_Head]

Svs has said they changed from down firing to front firing because

people wanted to see the drivers.

[Heritage_Head]

Ported subs use all the speakers’ energy (the backward

motion and forward motion). Sealed only

uses the front motion and that’s why it’s considered the tighter more accurate

of the two. The backward motion energy isn’t

part of the actual source. It’s just a tuned

frequency pushed out of the port. The overall size of the port is going to be a

big part of what we hear.

[Guest Anonymous]

Svs has said they changed from down firing to front firing because people wanted to see the drivers.

Ya know, i believe that. I have a paradigm PW1200 in my office system. it just doesnt have the same wow factor as the newer PW2200(see the woofer).

People could look at it and wonder where the Sub is.

I do agree that a direct radiator, can be turned to the wall, i had my 684 facing the wall in fact, but i turned it around so people could see it. []

[SuBXeRo]

i am very satisfied with those answers haha. they all seem right and proper haha. I think some of the best explanations about subs i have read and not having to sift through 40 pages of banter crap.

I am debating on getting different subs and selling my emotiva ultra sub 12's. I dont think they have the depth that i really want and i could sell both and buy a real deep sob instead. Downside is that it would be just one sub, i cant really swing 2 which sucks. If i sell now i can probably recoop all of the money pretty much or i can just buy 2 identical ones in the future. Its a toss up for me. I have been doing some peeking around and the Rythmik subs look like great contenders and they also use direct servo technology too. Now its kind of a choice of front firing, downfiring, ported or sealed haha.

[wuzzzer]

I think when it comes down to it, the goal of the sub manufacturer should be taken into consideration more than front/down/ported/sealed, etc. Did they design the sub for maximum output? Maximum extension? Most linear response? If you find a sub that does what you want it to do I wouldn't worry too much about how it's configured. As long as you can afford it and as long as it will fit in your room that's what counts! []

[Dysmae]

I will only be using sealed subs for the forseable future. I hate boomy sloppy bass and I love that tight controlled bass that sealed subs give you.

[SuBXeRo]

I think when it comes down to it, the goal of the sub manufacturer should be taken into consideration more than front/down/ported/sealed, etc. Did they design the sub for maximum output? Maximum extension? Most linear response? If you find a sub that does what you want it to do I wouldn't worry too much about how it's configured. As long as you can afford it and as long as it will fit in your room that's what counts!

i hate when i run out of room to fit everything, like huge emotiva amps, gigantic rf-7's, massive centers and last of all, titantic sized subwoofers. But, with speakers, physics comes into play and yeah, subs get big and heavy somtimes!

[Quiet_Hollow]

i hate when i run out of room to fit everything, like huge emotiva amps, gigantic rf-7's, massive centers and last of all, titantic sized subwoofers. But, with speakers, physics comes into play and yeah, subs get big and heavy somtimes!

This is where getting realistic with your SPL requirements comes into play.

Once that's established, you'd be surprised at what you can get away with, if you know where to put your power.

[Fish]

I will only be using sealed subs for the forseable future. I hate boomy sloppy bass and I love that tight controlled bass that sealed subs give you.

Me too, that's why I love the rsw15, never sloppy and zero boomy.

[willland]

I will only be using sealed subs for the forseable future. I hate boomy sloppy bass and I love that tight controlled bass that sealed subs give you.

Me too. I doubt I will ever change to a ported sub in my main system. Even when I had my RSW-10d, Sunfire True Sub Sig., and the two Paradigm Servo 15's, in my main system all at once(just for fun), it was never boomy or sloppy. It sure was overkill though.

Bill

[nezff]

ported = most output for HT IMHO.

[willland]

ported = most output for HT IMHO.

True, very true.

I just turn the subwoofer gain up on my NAD receiver's remote control when I want more ooomph[li] for movies.

Bill

[neo33]

ported = most output for HT IMHO.

Sealed = most distortion-free output for HT IMHO.

[Vital]

ported = most output for HT IMHO.

I run two sealed subs and I have more bass than I could ever use in this house. It's ridiculous actually lol. With the subs on the market today you can reach your goals with sealed or ported, whatever you prefer.

[Youthman]

I run two sealed subs and I have more bass than I could ever use in this house. It's ridiculous actually lol.

I could not agree more.

Sealed = most distortion-free output for HT IMHO.

My understanding is that Velodyne chose to go with sealed subs and use Servo controlled subs in their high end lines to help reduce distortion.

[JasonJCarney]

I have never used anything but a ported sub. You guys have me wanting to try a sealed one. Right now I have 2 A5-350's and my plan is to add a 3rd sub. The plan was another ported sub.... Hmmm.

[DrWho]

ported = most output for HT IMHO.

Sealed = most distortion-free output for HT IMHO.

Sealed always has more distortion than vented....plenty of measurements on the web showing the comparisons. Ported tends to be less damped at the tuning frequency, but that's different than distortion.