tragusa3 Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 No doubt my second sub accounted for alot of the "work". I intented to be encouraging....not scare you! Hope I didn't. Main problem with my subs were some terrible (15db+) peaks in the upper base. I don't know if the F20 has the same issues? I did hear a buddy's room with dual F20's and my impression was that it might. His were not EQ'd and were a bit out of control. By ear anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Main problem with my subs were some terrible (15db+) peaks in the upper base. That's normally associated with the room, not the subs but you can EQ it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Main problem with my subs were some terrible (15db+) peaks in the upper base. That's normally associated with the room, not the subs but you can EQ it out. The DTS-10 has a big 'ol spike @ 56 Hz and rising response from there on-up natively....I'd second Tony on this one. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 I stand corrected. I had no idea that the Danley's frequency response was so bad. My IB doesn't have that spike but my room does. EQ'ing did help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yeah, tapped horn are like that and need EQ. Horns like the F20 or Tuba should not be as bad. Does MultEQ XT show you the EQ applied? That's what i like about REW and a miniDSP; I know what I am applying (and can apply a high-pass filter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Does MultEQ XT show you the EQ applied? I have a stand alone unit that does show an amplitude response plot before and after. I don't know if AVRs with on-board multEQ XT export the same information. Thing is, that only reveals 1/3 of what the DSP is doing. A waterfall plot from REW would display some of the result of what the filter is doing in the time domain which is substantially more important. It's easy to reach point where you're saturated with data though. Technologies like Dolby Lake, Trinnov, TCS, and Audyssey handle the lion share of the interpretive process too, which helps in avoiding setup pitfalls. MultEQ XT samples both the mains' and subwoofer's phase response and lines them up best it can. It can determine where the system's impulse response is stable and unstable. The filter coefficients would tell what's ultimately going on. With those numbers in hand, it'd be possible to readily compare transfer functions, but only someone fluent in differential equations could make sense of it. REW and the miniDSP are indeed a powerful combination at their price point. [Y] I use one to tune my TableTuba. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ok, so.. re-arranged furniture to be more aesthetically pleasing, while also giving me a spot to sit in what i found to be the "best" from which i have to choose. re-ran audyssey, but with the sub gain down to about "2" - this provided me with appropriate trim levels for all speakers, including a sub trim of -2.5. the best i was getting before was -7 to -12. all speakers manually switched to small and crossover set to 80hz. on the plate amp: phase is at zero crossover disabled PEQ disabled Popped in Tron Legacy, turned up the sub gain to just after the 1/4 mark. Bass is loud and deep, punches me in the chest. LFE sounds as if it is coming from all of the other speakers, not the sub itself - that melting into the system effect. Slight boominess, but nothing compared to what i have been noticing in the past.really nice and clear sound from the speakers; they don't sound covered up by the LFE. so, minor victories and i think i am in good shape for the next little while as I gather up some basic measurement tools and start to look at room treatments. thanks again for the various inputs and ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Oshiro Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I'm in Arlington, TX. I have a TEF measurement system (the system that produced that plot from Danley earlier in this thread.) I'd love to measure your system and see how things work out. I'm only a 2-channel guy, so I have no experience with Audessy. I have used TEF to PEQ and crossover triamped Klipschorns (http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/156476.aspx?PageIndex=1). I'd like to get your opinion on my rig sometime also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have MultEQ and after some discussion and research, determined that it really isn't designed to handle such large issues. It's more of a fine tuning tool. So I first used the BFD and employed 5 filters that came straight from Tom Danley as a recommended starting point for the DTS 10. They include one of 18db at 54hz. Another of 15 db at 80hz and yet another up at 100hz. After those, I let audyssey do the polishing. I ended up with a curve that I'm very happy with. I had a knowledgable friend with REW and an omni mic come over and we actually got plus or minus 3db from 14hz up to above my crossover point. Thing is, my ears didn't like it. I now have a rise of about 10db from 30 down to 14hz. That came along with a dip in the 40-80 range. But I like it! Go figure. I used the raw cabinet with no eq for about 6 months, and it would honk you out of the room at those peak areas. Makes sense, if listening at reference and suddenly something comes along 18db hotter! But I didn't understand that at the time. I wondered where all the low end was. Pink noise measurements were setting my LFE based on these peaks....the lowest stuff was basically 18db low. Boy is it different now. Apologies for those with a clearer understanding of EQ, but it helps me to type it once in awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I put paragraphs... Don't know hy they didnt show? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've asked this before and I will ask it again since everyone seems to be talking about setting up and eq'ing subs. What are the basics for measuring the room and then measuring the sub in the room? I've done a few builds but I've NEVER done any measurements and I will stress that I'm looking for the Crayola explanation. I've done some searches on the forum and maybe I just missed the beginners guide to measurements and if so, just point me in that direction and it would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 on the plate amp: phase is at zero crossover disabled PEQ disabled I hope I didn't miss what you may have said about the amp but can you tell me what you think of this amp so far? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 So far, I love it. Pretty stupid easy to use. I have my gear mounted in a 42u cabinet, so I built a shelf out of mdf and mounted this horizontally with 25ft -/+ leads going to the sub. I picked this one primarily because of the adjustable high pass filter, but the extra 200w of headroom is nice, should I ever need it. I've yet to crank the gain past 50% and the amp's heat sink has never gotten so hot that I can't touch it. Great build quality from Oaudio and not that much more xpensive than the plain Jane bash amps from parts express. And they ship out of Austin, so I got my amp up here in north TX literally overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete H Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Pretty stupid easy to use.That's exactly what I liked about it was all the controls built right in, but wasn't sure of the company and reputation of the amp so I've been a little leery. I'm looking to use it on my spud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Oshiro Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I've asked this before and I will ask it again since everyone seems to be talking about setting up and eq'ing subs. What are the basics for measuring the room and then measuring the sub in the room? I've done a few builds but I've NEVER done any measurements and I will stress that I'm looking for the Crayola explanation. I've done some searches on the forum and maybe I just missed the beginners guide to measurements and if so, just point me in that direction and it would be great. I replied in my usual long-winded pedantic way, so I started a new thread http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/160262/1696183.aspx#1696183 I added a Crayola bit at the end. This build thread rocks, and my offer to help thaddeussmith with measurement still stands, as we are both in the DFW area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 I have MultEQ and after some discussion and research, determined that it really isn't designed to handle such large issues. It's more of a fine tuning tool. So I first used the BFD and employed 5 filters that came straight from Tom Danley as a recommended starting point for the DTS 10. They include one of 18db at 54hz. Another of 15 db at 80hz and yet another up at 100hz. After those, I let audyssey do the polishing. That's how I went about EQ'ing my rig. Let the BFD do the heavy lifting and let ARC take care of what's left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 This build thread rocks, and my offer to help thaddeussmith with measurement still stands, as we are both in the DFW area. Thanks for the comment on the thread, I had a blast building the sub. Generous offer of your time also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 This build thread rocks, and my offer to help thaddeussmith with measurement still stands, as we are both in the DFW area. Thanks Greg, I will surely be taking you up on your offer. I'm having my first kid some time in the next couple weeks, so lets plan to synch up some time after April/May. Maybe we can even turn it into a little clinic if other DFW'ers want to come out and learn some things about measuring and tweaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share Posted February 25, 2012 Great job! Are you going to be able to take some response measurements? I still think that thing is a monster in size. Even in my large room, I can't imagine having a couple of these. Rudy - I'm hoping to have a dfw horn heads at my place once life settles down, and would love it if someone with the tools and knowledge could do exactly this and help me tweak to my room. Looks like you got your wish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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