Subwoofer in 2 channel listening

[Dennie]

Well, you can "critically" listen to a garbage truck. But if you boost or lower certain freqs., it is no longer ACCURATE!!!

Fully agree. Carl has one of the best integrated subs I've ever heard. It's completely transparent and a person not looking up at the drivers up near the cieling might not ever know those brutes were there. That's how I like them for critical listening. I CAN crank the bass on a big pipe organ (and have done so after a few beers ) to where it impressively rattles the windows and makes pictures go crooked. But it isn't accurate nor does it sound like the real thing.

Dave

.....

Dennie

[SWL]

Mid-bass is where it's at for two-channel listening....for the most part.

I cannot make sense of that. Please educate me...

Dave

Wow, this one slipped through the cracks! Sorry for the delayed response Dave. [:$]

midbass The range of frequencies from 40-80Hz

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary-i-m

I realize that you're into some very deep bass. That's cool...very cool. However, I'm referring to music where the kick drum is just that....it kicks. I usually put a bump in the 40-80hz range of my PEQ that is eqing the subs.

I've had subs in the past that were capable of digging much deeper....and when trying to play them "deep" with typical rock and roll music that relies heavily on a pulsing, chest pounding effect type of bass the "deep" bass was always lagging behind. Very cool....but never fully "in" the music.....slow.

I'm not saying it's neccessary to try and break everything in your house. It just seems that the mid-bass frequencies and up are the most "musical" and they are the most effective for most types of music. Not discounting "deep" bass...I think it needs to be there for the full effect but emphasis on mid-upper bass rather than deep, infrasonic bass will be more articulate and accurate.

[Daddy Dee]

I use a sub with LaScalas for signal below 70hz.

[CECAA850]

I use a sub with LaScalas for signal below 70hz.

That's exactly how I have mine set up. It also eliminates the infamous sidewall cabinet vibration without having to add bracing or alter the speaker.

[stormin]

Mid-bass is where it's at for two-channel listening....for the most part.

I cannot make sense of that. Please educate me...

Dave

Wow, this one slipped through the cracks! Sorry for the delayed response Dave.

midbass The range of frequencies from 40-80Hz

http://www.stereophile.com/content/sounds-audio-glossary-glossary-i-m

I realize that you're into some very deep bass. That's cool...very cool. However, I'm referring to music where the kick drum is just that....it kicks. I usually put a bump in the 40-80hz range of my PEQ that is eqing the subs.

I've had subs in the past that were capable of digging much deeper....and when trying to play them "deep" with typical rock and roll music that relies heavily on a pulsing, chest pounding effect type of bass the "deep" bass was always lagging behind. Very cool....but never fully "in" the music.....slow.

I'm not saying it's neccessary to try and break everything in your house. It just seems that the mid-bass frequencies and up are the most "musical" and they are the most effective for most types of music. Not discounting "deep" bass...I think it needs to be there for the full effect but emphasis on mid-upper bass rather than deep, infrasonic bass will be more articulate and accurate.

You will not win that argument anywhere in the audiophile world Scott. Anything to change the natural characteristics of the music or musical instruments will be in direct conflict with the goals of the audiophile world. But after saying that I am with you on the midbass punch and enjoy it immensely. I have a pair of subs that excell in midbass slam but if i want to listen to music in a critical matter they are turned off. Once you overlap your mains with a sub which between 40hz-80hz which actually the punch tends to be more towards 100hz you have left the fidelity of your main speakers. Overlap is overlap and it just becomes personal enjoyment but it is not accurate and never will be.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Overlap is overlap and it just becomes personal enjoyment but it is not accurate and never will be.

I'm gonna pull an "Ethan Winer" here and let the golden ears decide.

Grab the earbuds and listen to this, paying particular attention to the quality of the bass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3BvwaE5d8

Then listen to the second song in this one:

In the last video, is the subwoofer actually passing a signal? [8]

[stormin]

Overlap is overlap and it just becomes personal enjoyment but it is not accurate and never will be.

I'm gonna pull an "Ethan Winer" here and let the golden ears decide.

Grab the earbuds and listen to this, paying particular attention to the quality of the bass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3BvwaE5d8

Then listen to the second song in this one:

In the last video, is the subwoofer actually passing a signal?

First one didn't work due to the country of origin.[:^)]

The second one the bass sounds so horrendous I cannot make an honest comment [:|]

Maybe I should have just stated that an emphasized midbass is not natural.

[Quiet_Hollow]

First one didn't work due to the country of origin.

Hmm...didn't realize UMG was also blocking that video stateside. [^o)] It only told me Germany on my end. Not cool. Thanks for the heads up. [{]

The second one the bass sounds so horrendous I cannot make an honest comment

Maybe I should have just stated that an emphasized midbass is not natural.

Well, that's to be expected to a degree with not being able to compare to the first one.

"It Could Be Sweet" by Portishead typically sounds like this through the web:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKlrUHAZWQ0

[stormin]

First one didn't work due to the country of origin.

Hmm...didn't realize UMG was also blocking that video stateside. It only told me Germany on my end. Not cool. Thanks for the heads up.

The second one the bass sounds so horrendous I cannot make an honest comment

Maybe I should have just stated that an emphasized midbass is not natural.

Well, that's to be expected to a degree with not being able to compare to the first one.

"It Could Be Sweet" by Portishead typically sounds like this through the web:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKlrUHAZWQ0

Is that without any midbass bump? Sounds like it on my end but I like it. Sounds alot like Sade to me.

[Quiet_Hollow]

Is that without any midbass bump? Sounds like it on my end but I like it. Sounds alot like Sade to me.

No bump. It's a type of synth beat the keyboard player is using on his Roland.

If you like that track, you might also enjoy this one. A live version of one of their earliest hits:

[oscarsear]

I've got an RSW-15 between a modified pair of Khorns.

[derrickdj1]

Very cool oscarsear!

[Rivernuggets]

"It Could Be Sweet" by Portishead

Excellent song, one of their best. Always finds its way onto compilations. I love her sigh after the last "it could be sweet".

I have Chorus IIs for 2 channel listening. Don't have a good place for a sub in that room so it's just the mains. I like a little more bass and stray from the 'audiophile' way by having the loudness (or contour) on. At high volume it gets too boomy so the loudness is off. Most of the time I'm under 70 dbs anyway. Sounds great to me.

If I did have a sub in that setup I'd probably overlap 5-10 Hz to accent my taste. Hmm, I should try it and see!

[Chris A]

At high volume it gets too boomy so the loudness is off.

Have you though about using one or two bass traps in the corners? This will dramatically affect "room boom" based on how much area is trapped by the corner(s).

By the way, I failed to mention here that I leave my TH subs on all the time, as if they were part of the Jubs in two-channel mode, or Jubs+Belle center in multichannel mode. I miss them when they are not on, unless there is little to no bass or bass drum in the music being played. Virtually anything Jazz, pop, rock, or world music has significant sub-40 Hz information, IME.

Chris

[Rivernuggets]

At high volume it gets too boomy so the loudness is off.

Have you though about using one or two bass traps in the corners? This will dramatically affect "room boom" based on how much area is trapped by the corner(s).

Thanks for your insight Chris. One corner opposite the Chorus IIs has room for a bass trap, above our upright piano. The other corner has built in book shelves on one side. Would it be a good test to pile a bunch of blankets into a rough triangle shape on the piano?

[Rivernuggets]

Sorry for the slight thread hijack derrick.

[Chris A]

Would it be a good test to pile a bunch of blankets into a rough triangle shape on the piano?

I've not tried that, but it would cost little if anything to try. The idea is to form an open space behind the bass trap and the corner of the room that acts like a tube resonator, with damping on the corner side.

The bass traps that I have are double Owens-Corning panels, so they're fairly large and rigid.

Chris

[SBinLilRock]

I just got my la scalas so I'm still experimenting, but this setup sounds pretty nice.

[hugeroost]

^^^^ man i"d like to hear that system

[Rivernuggets]

The idea is to form an open space behind the bass trap and the croorner of the room that acts like a tube resonator with damping on the corner side.

I've only seen bass traps in pictures, haven't read up on how they work. Can you tell? [H]

Thanks, I'll experiment a little with some materials from the shop.