SuBXeRo Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I got this email today from outlaw talking about their 978 Processor which has been a real redheaded step child for outlaw since its inception. It has been cancelled unilaterally by the manufacturer. Sucky situaion for Outlaw. Give it a read! Ian, As you may know, we have been developing the Model 978 processor as a successor to the Model 990 for quite some time. Unfortunately, we have some disappointing news. The Model 978 processor project has been suddenly and unilaterally cancelled by our development partner/factory in China and consequently, all work on this project has ceased. Given the length of time that many of you have been waiting for the Model 978 we owe you an explanation as to what happened.With progress on this product moving too slowly for all of us, we assigned Scott Jackson, our Sales Manager, to work directly with the factory in an effort to speed things up. Scott first visited the factory in January, and was able to resolve many issues. With the success of the first trip, Scott anticipated accelerating the project through to completion during a second trip to China last month. Indeed, during this second visit great progress was made. Audyssey MultEQ XT32 was now fully working, the video and audio subsystems were fully functioning, the HDMI system had passed pre-certification testing, and the Model 978 was ready to be submitted for formal approvals. The factory's engineering department invited Scott to return again in July to help resolve the few remaining issues raised by our beta testers. At the last minute, Scott's return to Boston was delayed when the factory's management asked for additional time in order to share the results of a meeting that was just held with one of their largest customers. As we soon learned, the purpose of this meeting was to address this customer's objection to the factory's decision to build products for companies that they considered "competitors." For the record, this customer, headquartered in North America, is NOT an Internet-direct company and its brands and products are sold through conventional "brick and mortar" dealers. For that reason, the factory did not view Outlaw as a direct competitor to this customer and therefore joined with Outlaw in the development of the Model 978. During this meeting the factory's management informed Scott that this specific customer had made it clear, on a non-negotiable basis, that building either a receiver or processor for certain companies they perceived as competitors was "not acceptable." Outlaw was near the top of this short list and as a result all work on the Outlaw branded processor by the factory had to be cancelled immediately. To say that Scott, myself, and the rest of the Outlaws were stunned by this decision is an understatement. Over the last few weeks we have exhausted every avenue to find a path that would preserve the Model 978 platform. These options included the possibility of purchasing the PCB layout files, firmware, and software from the factory in order to finish the development process and build this processor elsewhere. Unfortunately, we were informed by the factory that such a transfer would not be possible. This is due in part to the nature of our agreements with the factory, as well as the intense pressure on the factory from this customer. Every alternative solution we presented was ultimately rejected by our now former partner/factory. For those of you who are Star Trek fans, this is our own "Kobayashi Maru" - a problem for which there is no known solution. We realize that this is not the first Outlaw product that hasn't made it to the market. As many of you may remember, we cancelled the Model 997 processor once we realized that it would not work properly. In that case, the platform suffered from a combination of architecture and software issues. Our decision to cancel was validated by the relative failure of the Sherwood R972, the A/V receiver based on that platform. By contrast, in this case the factory's unilateral cancellation of the Model 978 is a totally different story. This development project was a collaborative effort between the factory and Outlaw, with the critical parts and circuits chosen and designated by us, including the addition of our proprietary phono preamp circuit. Our goal from the outset was to design and build a unit that would be an extraordinarily strong performer, capable of competing sonically with the very best processors available. In addition, we took into account the constructive feedback from members of the Saloon, such as the inclusion of the Audyssey MultEQ XT32. This product represented the best thinking of the entire Outlaw team. With all of the time, energy and collaborative effort invested to-date, the idea of not having this flagship processor in our arsenal is extremely difficult to accept, especially since it was so close to completion. Given the nature of Internet-direct businesses, we expect that this news will resonate across the chat rooms and forums, along with the conspiracy theories that tend to accompany such things. We also realize that there may be a certain amount of hostility by some, and perhaps the clinking of champagne glasses on the part of others. Regardless of whatever postings or rumors appear, the events are as described above. Most importantly, it is not our intent to ask anyone to hang on for a replacement for the Model 978 as the quick development of a product with that level of complexity is simply not realistic. We are reviewing all possible options, but any decisions on another high-end processor will take time as the leading edge of advanced technology moves very quickly. While this situation is the result of industry political considerations that were totally outside of our control, we deeply apologize to those of you who have waited for this product and have kept the faith. At Outlaw we are all, of course, extremely frustrated. At the end of the day, a "perfect storm" of conditions negated virtually all of the efforts of the entire Outlaw team. However, our resolve has never been stronger or more focused than it is right now. We are continuing to investigate all avenues for replacing the Model 978 and are aggressively pursuing other products that are already under development. To that point, we offer the following: While we do NOT have a substitute for the Model 978 at this time, there is another processor in the works which we quietly started with a different development partner and factory last fall. In comparison to the Model 978, this is an entry level processor that is simple to operate and it is targeted at our budget-minded customers. It not only covers the basics and a bit more, from a sonic perspective this new processor will be an over-achiever. During Scott's recent trip to China he visited this second factory to monitor the project's progress. He was pleased to report that the processor was actually ahead of schedule. While we planned to remain quiet about this processor until it was closer to completion, the accelerated schedule allows us to tip our hand a bit earlier than scheduled. Originally slated for introduction in the first quarter of 2013, if all continues to go well, we will ship this unit sometime in the fourth quarter of this year. Once again, we apologize to those who were eagerly anticipating delivery of the Model 978 as we are keenly aware of the frustration you have endured while waiting patiently (and sometimes not so patiently) for this product. Please be assured that we have exhausted every possible alternative to find a way to deliver this processor to our customers. Ultimately, there could be no contingency plan in place for this unpredictable situation that was entirely due to factors outside of our control. While there is no denying that this has been a setback, we are more determined than ever to providing you with a number of great new products in the near future. Sincerely, Peter Tribeman President, Outlaw Audio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 A successful company would have been able to articulate the message in 50 words or less. I never read so many excuses in a 1000 (actually 1300) word essay in my life. Hopefully, Peter canned Scott, and if Outlaw Audio is a publicly traded company, Peter is on his way out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Im happy they actually explained it. If this is the truth then what happened to them was sucky. They got strong-armed by a larger competitor and the manufacturer didnt want to lose the bigger fish. I don't consider anything they said to be excuses. I've been following along with the progress of the unit and they had mishaps like emotiva did like delivering the UMC-1 as a pure bug machine. I suppose this just englightens us as the consumer what really can go on in the backend of things that we don't see. I dont believe outlaw is public and they are just a small private company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 they are just a small private company Chances are good the the Chinese company will incorporate some of the Outlaw engineering into someone elses products, too. That's the way they roll...Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It was a good plan by the "competitor" to allow the factory to almost complete the project before stepping in and shutting them down............making it much less feasible for Outlaw to pick up the pieces and start over again. Also, a very poor deal by Outlaw to not own their design. It sounds like they have nothing and would have only been the sales and marketing end of the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It was a good plan by the "competitor" to allow the factory to almost complete the project before stepping in and shutting them down............making it much less feasible for Outlaw to pick up the pieces and start over again. Also, a very poor deal by Outlaw to not own their design. It sounds like they have nothing and would have only been the sales and marketing end of the product. Very good points...I do kinda feel bad for any company that gets a tough break, if they ain't crooks.The guys at Outlaw must not have much sway.......best to have your own solid designs...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I think it just sucks all around for any company, like Marvel said the company will probably incorporate some of the product into theirs. It all smells fishy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhetor Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 It is the cost of doing business in China . . . Outsourcing is iffy at best to what is the entrepreneurial equivalent of the wild west in a Communist country where underhanded deals and theft of intellectual property and outright industrial and producT piracy is considered a virtue . . . You have to have deep pockets to either pay for graft or pay to avoid graft in the Chinese industrial environment . . . 22 fake Apple stores last year were nearly impossible to shut down. All in the pursuit to get products made cheaper by paying $1 an hour for cheap labor . . . It is always sad to see any group victimized . . . But Outlaw had to know that going in was a possible outcome. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/13185241. Well, at least the Klipsch Heritage speakers are still made in Hope, AR, USA!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 18, 2012 Moderators Share Posted July 18, 2012 Alot more than just Heritage speakers are made in Hope. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vital Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Not cool at all, the Chinese are shady! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBXeRo Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 i dont know much about design in regards to this but i have to ask myself "why on earth did they not have a contract in place to prevent this from happening?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 This doesn't surprise me one bit. We realize that this is not the first Outlaw product that hasn't made it to the market. As many of you may remember, we cancelled the Model 997 processor once we realized that it would not work properly. I was in line to buy from them during that debacle spanning '05-'08. NOT COOL [N] Trying to save face because they finally got TKO'd. Could see it coming.....6 years ago. [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 This begs the question, does Outlaw have any hand in the development of any of their products? From the way the letter sounds, I am viewing Outlaw as just a reseller of a product fully developed and built in China. There are a few other things about that letter that has me very confused as well. Why send a sales manager to china? The connection between sales manager and speeding up the development process seems odd to me. Are sales managers usually very technically oriented? I am not trying to knock the Outlaw brand or the Chinese because I know they have some very good products, I am just curious as to if this type of thing is the norm. It really stinks that they lost a good product, but it sounds like they had so little control of the product, it really wasn't their product. Unfortunately the only real loser here is the consumer. It is good news they have another good looking prepro on the way. These things seem to be vastly more complicated than I could have imagined, seeing all these different companies struggle so much in the developmental process. I read earlier that Emotiva has spent more money on the development of their new XMC-1 processor than all of their previous products combined. So it's really surprising to me that these small ID companies are able to accomplish so much. For me, they will always be favored and looked at first over the big name brands such as Pioneer, Onkyo, Yamaha, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 I think you hit the nail on the head. The large companies have economy of scale on their side which makes it harder for smaller companies to do the R&D necessary to keep it all internal or hold the big hand over an out source company to keep this type of thing from happening. Of all the audio components, pre-amps change so oftern due to all the new connectivity, format.DAC, and video processor, that this becomes an expensive process for smaller companies. We need ID companies to give competition to the big boys so that consumers have choice and fair pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary p Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 My outlaw 7700 amp is the one thing I own I don't think I'll ever need to replace. Not being a computer guy I missed out on a lot of information on other products that I never knew were available. It started with oppo. When I took a chance on a direct to consumer company I scored. Great company,excellent product,total satisfaction. My second move was with outlaw. Again excellent product. Many on outlaws forum were waiting an eternity for the 978. It might have been my next purchase. Total letdown.we may never know who screwed them but that's the nature of outsourcing. Not always possible to buy American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 i dont know much about design in regards to this but i have to ask myself "why on earth did they not have a contract in place to prevent this from happening?" The Chinese break contracts all the time, and if true about a larger player with them, they would walk away from a smaller player in a heartbeat.Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGREEN Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Go ahead corperate America..rely on China some more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Go ahead corperate America..rely on China some more! Although I get your point..........Outlaw is not corporate anything, they're actually a pretty small company....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 "I am totally unappreciated in my time. You can run this whole park from this room with minimal staff for up to 3 days. Do you think that type of automation is easy... or cheap? Do you know anyone who can network 8 connection machines and debug 2 million lines of code for what I bid for this job? Because if he can I'd like to see him try. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Great quote from an amazing movie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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