will a quality CD player improve music.

[liebherr954]

Hello all.

I am currently enjoying music more then I used too and I would like to know if adding a dedicated cd player to my existing setup would make any difference ?

Here is a list of my equipment.

Yamaha 1065 receiver

Upa 5 amp

Klipsch RB-81 mains

Dual SVS PB12NSD.

Sony ps3 that plays blu rays and cds.

I have several acoustic panels spaced out around my room at the first reflection points to help with the terrible echo in my basement.

I love my current setup for movies but it sounds almost hollow with music.

If I have read correctly Yamaha receivers (or at least mine) are not really designed with 2 channel in mind. So would adding a unit like the erc 2 and using its on board dac's help out a lot or is it more of a lost cause?

I have a budget of $500 total so its not enough to upgrade the receiver as well.

My room is 17x25 with laminate floors on top of concrete, I also have a 10x5 area rug in front of my tv stand with both main speakers flanking my RB-81's.

I posted this on the Emotiva forums but I took some flac because I'm using " Klipsch " speakers so I was hoping I could get some advice here.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Nathan.

[Mallette]

Hello all. I am currently enjoying music more then I used too and I would like to know if adding a dedicated cd player to my existing setup would make any difference ? Here is a list of my equipment. Yamaha 1065 receiver Upa 5 amp Klipsch RB-81 mains Dual SVS PB12NSD. Sony ps3 that plays blu rays and cds. I have several acoustic panels spaced out around my room at the first reflection points to help with the terrible echo in my basement. I love my current setup for movies but it sounds almost hollow with music. If I have read correctly Yamaha receivers (or at least mine) are not really designed with 2 channel in mind. So would adding a unit like the erc 2 and using its on board dac's help out a lot or is it more of a lost cause? I have a budget of $500 total so its not enough to upgrade the receiver as well. My room is 17x25 with laminate floors on top of concrete, I also have a 10x5 area rug in front of my tv stand with both main speakers flanking my RB-81's. I posted this on the Emotiva forums but I took some flac because I'm using " Klipsch " speakers so I was hoping I could get some advice here. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Nathan.

On your specific question, my answer is "no." Not that I cannot say that some CD player might be incrementally better sounding to you but I can tell from your overall statement you are major not happy with what you are hearing.

There is definitely a problem. I suggest simplifying your system to the minimum of source>amplification>2 speakers and working from there. The space and such sound fine to me. Of course, it's absurd for anyone to assume they experience what you hear but it's hard for me to imagine really bad sound in the space you describe. Go back to basics and work from there. I don't know that Yammy offhand but find it hard to believe that if it has a 2 channel mode it is any different from any other 2 channel amp...if it is, it isn't right.

I am a devotee of Ockam's Razor: The simplest approach is almost always the best approach.

Good luck with it and keep us informed.

Dave

[Dennie]

Yeah Nathan, I agree with Dave, you should get "decent" sound from the gear you have.

Also, work on the room. Lay down another rug in the back of the room, or some blankets, just for test purposes. Hang a tapestry on the wall or again, some spare blankets, to try to get rid of the "hollowness" you are experiencing.

Move the speakers around. Toe them in towards the listening position, if they are not already. Move them away or towards the side and back walls, etc...! Remove or move your acoustic treatments, just to see how it effects the sound. Turn off one or both subs, so you can hear what the speakers are doing, then add one back in and see how it sounds.

The room usually has more to do with the sound than the gear.

Good luck and keep us posted,

Dennie

[liebherr954]

Thanks guys for the quick response.

Maybe I should have said I expected more from the 2 channel then I'm currently getting.

I love the whole HT experience but I really was hoping for more with music.

Thats why I was wondering if a good cd player would make a difference, does this make any sense? I'll try different toe angles for the speakers and see if that helps any.

Once again thank you

[Mallette]

I am going to quote myself from another thread:

"Gentlemen, I submit as I always have. There are three major factors in audio:

1. The source

2. The source,

and most importantly,

3. The source.

The equipment, room treatment, and magic pebbles play their roles, but without the Source the magic will not happen.

I'd rather listen to a fine source recording on Bose in a Basement than Krap on Klipsch in a Kathedral...

And that's all I've got to say about that.

Dave"

In short, I personally do not feel your current CD player is a significant issue in your lack of satisfaction. Start with known first class source material played back through the simplest possible chain to 2 speakers. Work out the rest from that...

Dave

[derrickdj1]

I think the other post gave you some good advice. Take special attention to setting of the subs because using multiple sub can actually make the sound worse if they are not setup correctly. I level match mine and connect the two subs by a Y connector to the .1 connection to the receiver. In difficult rooms I use a trick, setting up the entire system as a THX system even if all the equipment is not all THX eq. This will increas the synergy of the system and aid bass management.

[danielmontiverde]

thanks for sharing...

--------------------------------------

stroke therapy

[big bones billy]

The Yamaha won't work for 2 channel. I had an old Pioneer VSX1014, a decent receiver for HT, but thin and hollow sounding for 2 channel. Just like you describe the Yamaha.

I had an old 15 watt Kenwood receiver that sound miles better in the stereo set up. You'll need a different amp/receiver for your 2 channel listening, I'm afraid.

[garymd]

Sorry Mr. Mallette but I must disagree with you (doesn't happen very often).

I went through something similar. I have a acoustically terrific room with Cornwalls and tried to "upgrade" my 1976 Kenwood receiver with a new HT reciever (this is back in 2001). To my shock and horror, the 2-channel mode on my new Sony ES was horrible at best. I eventually ended up using a Scott 299b for 2-channel with a switchbox to go between HT and 2-channel on my Cornwalls.

My suggestion would be to find an old HK430 or some other nice 70s era receiver and use a Niles switchbox so your mains can be used with either reciever at the push of a button. It'll cost you about $200 total and you'll flip out when you hear the difference.

[Mallette]

Sorry Mr. Mallette but I must disagree with you (doesn't happen very often).

Well, Gary, perfect acceptable...accept I am not sure about what. Hard to imagine you'd disagree that bad recordings sound worse on good equipment and spaces, and the worse they are the worse they sound.

Inversely, the finest quality recordings require incredibly bad playback chains to make them sound crappy.

Just my experience...

Dave

[jacksonbart]

Sorry Mr. Mallette but I must disagree with you (doesn't happen very often).

Well, Gary, perfect acceptable...accept I am not sure about what. Hard to imagine you'd disagree that bad recordings sound worse on good equipment and spaces, and the worse they are the worse they sound.

Inversely, the finest quality recordings require incredibly bad playback chains to make them sound crappy.

Just my experience...

Dave

That is such a one dimensional statement. So I could have the bestest recording ever made (I mean even all the golden ear swear its the best) played on a portable coby speakers of a song that I hate and its gonna beat playing a lesser quality recording of a song I love on a fantastic system in a great sounding room? I think not. no offense.

[mark1101]

Here's something additional to consider. The Emotiva amps are high gain and have no ability to turn it down. It is not a good match for Klipsch speakers in general. This is contributing factor to your situation. Those amps are way too sensitive. I have heard people say they love Emotiva and have also heard many complaints of noise (hiss) and poor matching to Klipsch. I see a lot of them for sale.

You know...........there's no free lunch. You get what you pay for. I would consider trying another receiver or amp such as what Gary has mentioned or a tube amp if you really want your Klipsch to perform well with music. If you are using a separate preamp you should try to find an amp that has gain controls so you can balance your gain structure. This will help immensely.

[wuzzzer]

Certainly couldn't hurt to give it a try. I'd recommend looking for a used Cambridge Audio CD player. Their 6xx series is fantastic. Search eBay, audiogon, craigslist. If you get it and you don't think it makes a difference you can always resell it. Use the CD player's analog outputs.

[garymd]

I guess I didn't state that very clearly.

My point was I didn't think the OP was experiencing a "good vs poor quality recording" issue. My point was that my experience tells me many HT recievers don't do a very good job with 2-channel music and trying a different reciever without spending a lot of money would be the best bang for the buck solution.

I apologize for my unclear post. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.......[]

[psg]

Since you have RB-81 and Dual SVS PB12NSD, I presume that you are using the subs for music as well. I presume that you are therefore using a digital connection between your CD player and receiver and not analog cables. In that case, "no", buying an expensive CD player won't change much of anything. You are only using it to get the bits off the disk, and not using the analog stage of the player at all.

[Mallette]

I think not. no offense.

None taken. Everybody's milage varies and there is no "right" or "wrong" here. My Klipschorns are merciless and magnify every flaw in a recording mercilessly. For me, it's intolerable.

OTOH, even on very crappy equipment the qualities of a fine recording shine through.

However, I am comfortable with my own value of garbage in, garbage out without regard to the quality of the equipment. My car radio is stock and I can judge the quality of a recording on it in a heartbeat.

Dave

[liebherr954]

You guys have helped me out a lot and thank you for doing so.

I'm new to 2 channel so maybe my expectation where to high? I did play with speaker positioning, I toed them in a bit more and it did seem to help out a bit. I understand about the source material I think, kind of like a poorly recorded movie Vs a quality movie.

I will do some more research and trial and error on positioning etc before I start throwing money at my setup.

Once again thank you everyone who chimed in.

Nathan

[George Roland]

I have not read all the other responses, so I apologize if someone already suggested this. Do you have any acquaintances with decent audio gear? If so, it might be worth your while to ask one or two of them to lend you a receiver or dedicated amp setup or two to try out with your system. Invite them over, give them a drink and listen to some tunes with which you're familiar. Amplification can make a huge difference. Hopefully someone might have some tube gear you could audition. Tube electronics sound really nice with efficient speakers.

Keep us posted.

Good luck!

Georg

[artto]

Sorry Mr. Mallette but I must disagree with you (doesn't happen very often).

Well, Gary, perfect acceptable...accept I am not sure about what. Hard to imagine you'd disagree that bad recordings sound worse on good equipment and spaces, and the worse they are the worse they sound.

Inversely, the finest quality recordings require incredibly bad playback chains to make them sound crappy.

Just my experience...

Dave

That is such a one dimensional statement. So I could have the bestest recording ever made (I mean even all the golden ear swear its the best) played on a portable coby speakers of a song that I hate and its gonna beat playing a lesser quality recording of a song I love on a fantastic system in a great sounding room? I think not. no offense.

Just like Mr. Peabody's coal train done take it away, Sad, but true Mr. Bart.

Here's a little personal experience.

When I graduated college I couldn't find work in my field (yes, youngsters, it was worse back then). So I took a job at an A/V store. They sold a lot more TV than Hi-Fi. In the main store area, a large open space, with mostly TV related stuff, they had on display a Sony portable stereo, the kind with the flip down turntable and detachable speakers.

Surprisingly, this place had some excellent recordings around for demo. One of them was a Sheffield Lab direct-to-disk of Thelma Houston, a kick-a$$ recording. One day I decided to put this on the Sony expecting it to blow the Sony sky-high. To my surprise, that little Sony portable never sounded so good! No, it wasn't like it was on my Klipschorns, but it sure made that little Sony sound like it was worth a lot more than what it cost. It was at that moment I realized old man Willard wasn't as stupid as he looked.

And if your think I'd rather listen to a crappy sounding 78rpm home made recording of my relatives singing and playing accordians that my old man made in 1953 on my Klipschorns you're sadly mistaken.

[Mallette]

of a song that I hate

Okies...and I know the quote isn't yours, Artto...why add that part, Bart? Why would ANYBODY listen to a song they hate?

I did not say "make sure you get really high quality recordings of music you hate..."

Other than that, then, for me, I prefer great performances recording accurately on Coby speakers to Krap on Klispch because I listen to music, not equipment.

Not that I would listen to the latter...I won't listen to krap period.

I once stood for over an hour in the cold outside the National Cathedral listening to the choir rehearse behind closed windows. I'd rather have been inside and could have done without the sirens and buses, which are more annoying than vinyl clicks and pops (not to mention the gunfire...), but I enjoyed it nonetheless because it was QUALITY source material that showed through even stone walls and windows.

Further, I have consistently said "JMHO" and not anywhere suggested that those who require pure platinum interconnects, acoustics by Michaelangelo, or GENUINE magic pebbles are in anyway wrong. I've a lot of respect for this entire community and just hope everyone is getting the great experience of fine music.

For me, GIGO is a reality. If your milage varies, excellent and you have my support.

Dave