What model Klipsch horn is this?

[artto]

What is the model number/name of the high frequency horn on top of these Jubilee?

And second, are these both the same other than the material used?

[artto]

.

[mikebse2a3]

K403.....never went into production

Sound was good what little time I was able to listen.

miketn

[Coytee]

And second, are these both the same other than the material used?

Yes, I think they are. I seem to recall hearing that they (Klipsch) couldn't get them in the quality they wanted so they stopped that effort. I think I heard they ordered them from an Italian company but, don't know that for sure.

[artto]

And second, are these both the same other than the material used?

Yes, I think they are. I seem to recall hearing that they (Klipsch) couldn't get them in the quality they wanted so they stopped that effort. I think I heard they ordered them from an Italian company but, don't know that for sure.

Yes, I remember, I think it was Trey, telling me something like that about the quality issue. I guess I'm still puzzled why Klipsch never went ahead with these. Surely they could have had these made entirely out of wood, ala TAD or Martinelli, whatever. I really don't understand the "quality" issue excuse, especially with today's computer-aided manufacturing technology.

[Coytee]

I've got a little voice i the back of my head that says PWK told Roy he wanted an even larger horn... I don't know that to be 100% accurate, just one of the many voices floating inside my head.

I think Roy said this horn either cost them $3K or the retail was going to be $3K.

Personally, I think the 402 looks fine on top however, I would admit that if there was a horn between the size of the 402 and the 403 where you could put it into a Khorn style tophat, it might look nicer. (I'd still opt for the better control of the larger horn though, it's kind of cool with the look of intimidation)

[dtel]

(I'd still opt for the better control of the larger horn though, it's kind of cool with the look of intimidation)

Even the 402 horn can not look intimidating while playing Marie Osmond. [:$]

I also like the look of the 402 horn, thinking about putting some wood trim around the edges, it's been years, it's time for a different look.

[artto]

(I'd still opt for the better control of the larger horn though, it's kind of cool with the look of intimidation)

Even the 402 horn can not look intimidating while playing Marie Osmond.

LOL.

That reminds me of when I first started playing bands. A friend of mine had gotten the new Fender catalog (circa 1967 or so). On the inside cover there was collage of photos with all the artist's names who used Fender. As we were looking through the endorsments of all these well known bands and guitar players of the time like The Beach Boys, Chet Atkins, Lawerance Welk (his guitar player), etc. all of a sudden my friend Greg says, "The Osmonds? WhotheF### are the Osmonds?"

LMAO

Looking more and more like its gonna be three 402 for me []

[Coytee]

Looking more and more like its gonna be three 402 for me

As in three Jubilee's or three 402's on top of Khorns & center channel?

Either way... if you haven't heard them yet, little doubt in my mind that you'll have a hard time going to bed the first night you have them.

[Turbox]

I just got my 402's, not even had them a week. they are much larger that i had anticipated, but dont regret that decision at all. Vinyl never sounded so nice.

[ZAKO]

Yes indeed the 403 horns had poor quality control problems...I had a pair,,The throat flange was warped,,And would not seat well on the driver...They sounded terrable..

[artto]

Looking more and more like its gonna be three 402 for me

As in three Jubilee's or three 402's on top of Khorns & center channel?

Either way... if you haven't heard them yet, little doubt in my mind that you'll have a hard time going to bed the first night you have them.

Yes, I have heard them, on Fyrpwr's system. What I really liked most was the two-way configuration ~ seemed much more coherent. I've always felt the K400 was too small compared to the bass horn, and as compared other types of speaker's midrange/treble radiators, like, say, Quad ESL. Maggies, or Infinity IRS.

I'll be transitioning over to Jubilee gradually. My Khorns are lag bolted to the room walls and foundation, sealed air tight. It's going to be kind of a project changing them out for Jubilee so that part won't be done until I have time to pull the whole system down, get the room painted, new flooring, etc.

Stage One I plan to replace the Belle center with a Jubilee/402 and replace the Khorn top hats with 402 and use EV DX38 (or similar) for the crossover and time alignment or possibly just go with 402 across all three for right now. I'll worry about the Jubilee bottoms for L&R later since the room is already kind of optimized for the Khorns and I also recently added four Epik Empire subs crossed over at 40Hz. Lastly I'll keep my eyes out for some TAD-4003. But as far as I'm concerned, that's splitting hairs at this point. Everything sounds really, really good right now and anyone who's been over to my place for a listen probably should revisit. I'd be really interested in what they hear now.

And I'm going over to Kwing's place today for a listen. He has Jub bottoms with those round Le Cleac'h horns.

[The Dude]

So I take it you got your answer as if the k-402 will work with the Khorn bass bin. This was kind of what I as well have been wondering, will you be doing any equing withe the Khorn bass bin or did you figure out if you even need to with the k402 horn. I will be interested to here what you have to say about the sound of the k402/Khorn bass bin combo.

[seti]

I like the 403 because it doesn't need any eq. This is with the b&c de82tn. I'm glad no one else liked it because I do. Would be nice to have a wooden pair.

I'm no expert with true rta but this is at 3ft.

[seti]

And I'm going over to Kwing's place today for a listen. He has Jub bottoms with those round Le Cleac'h horns.

I like the Le cleac'h horns. I've heard them at Experience Music and the EMIA room at Lone Star Audio Fest.

[artto]

So I take it you got your answer as if the k-402 will work with the Khorn bass bin. This was kind of what I as well have been wondering, will you be doing any equing withe the Khorn bass bin or did you figure out if you even need to with the k402 horn. I will be interested to here what you have to say about the sound of the k402/Khorn bass bin combo.

From what Roy told me and what I've read around hear it seems like the K402 should be ok with the Khorn. I guess some of it kind of depends on what driver you slap on the 402, and certainly how you pick your crossover points and slope thereafter.

In regards to EQ, since adding the four Empire Epik subs, I also added a Behringer DEQ2496 on the Khorns and one on the Belle center speaker (3 total - one on the subs). On the Belle I used the time delay so the signal aligns with the Khorns, The Belle has the EQ cutoff at 80Hz so it doesn't interfere with the subs which are physically nearby and also time aligned with the Khorns.

On both the Khorns and the Belle I use the DEQ2496's EQ for several "room curves". I have three different ones, more or less intended for different kinds of music. Starting at 20Khz, one is -8dB, rising 0.5dB per 1/3 octave until it reaches "flat". The second is -11dB, and the 3rd -14dB. The -8dB is for rock, -11dB for jazz and -14db for classical which is more in line with what we would normally hear in a concert hall. I used the DEQ2496's Auto EQ for getting the response as "smooth" as possible along those parameters. Obviously, you can use any of the EQ curves for whatever you want or bypass them entirely. Also, I kept 100Hz and lower out of the Auto EQ process for the Khorns and Belle because Behringer says the algorithm they use may cause inaccuracies in the results. I also run the Khorns full range thru the bass without any cutoff as on the Belle since the subs are time aligned with them.

The EQ makes a subtle difference, mostly an improvement in articulation especially with voice in a "thick" mix. Everything I've said is in regards to digital playback only, primarily CD and SACD played on the SACD player. On vinyl LP I think the EQ settings described above makes things sound worse.

[artto]

I like the 403 because it doesn't need any eq. This is with the b&c de82tn. I'm glad no one else liked it because I do. Would be nice to have a wooden pair.

I'm no expert with true rta but this is at 3ft.

That response on the 403 looks pretty good to me. Anyone have something similar on the 402?

[The Dude]

So I take it you got your answer as if the k-402 will work with the Khorn bass bin. This was kind of what I as well have been wondering, will you be doing any equing withe the Khorn bass bin or did you figure out if you even need to with the k402 horn. I will be interested to here what you have to say about the sound of the k402/Khorn bass bin combo.

From what Roy told me and what I've read around hear it seems like the K402 should be ok with the Khorn. I guess some of it kind of depends on what driver you slap on the 402, and certainly how you pick your crossover points and slope thereafter.

In regards to EQ, since adding the four Empire Epik subs, I also added a Behringer DEQ2496 on the Khorns and one on the Belle center speaker (3 total - one on the subs). On the Belle I used the time delay so the signal aligns with the Khorns, The Belle has the EQ cutoff at 80Hz so it doesn't interfere with the subs which are physically nearby and also time aligned with the Khorns.

On both the Khorns and the Belle I use the DEQ2496's EQ for several "room curves". I have three different ones, more or less intended for different kinds of music. Starting at 20Khz, one is -8dB, rising 0.5dB per 1/3 octave until it reaches "flat". The second is -11dB, and the 3rd -14dB. The -8dB is for rock, -11dB for jazz and -14db for classical which is more in line with what we would normally hear in a concert hall. I used the DEQ2496's Auto EQ for getting the response as "smooth" as possible along those parameters. Obviously, you can use any of the EQ curves for whatever you want or bypass them entirely. Also, I kept 100Hz and lower out of the Auto EQ process for the Khorns and Belle because Behringer says the algorithm they use may cause inaccuracies in the results. I also run the Khorns full range thru the bass without any cutoff as on the Belle since the subs are time aligned with them.

The EQ makes a subtle difference, mostly an improvement in articulation especially with voice in a "thick" mix. Everything I've said is in regards to digital playback only, primarily CD and SACD played on the SACD player. On vinyl LP I think the EQ settings described above makes things sound worse.

thank you this answers alot

[seti]

I like the 403 because it doesn't need any eq. This is with the b&c de82tn. I'm glad no one else liked it because I do. Would be nice to have a wooden pair.

I'm no expert with true rta but this is at 3ft.

That response on the 403 looks pretty good to me. Anyone have something similar on the 402?

The 402/510 combo on the mcm grand with the passive that comes with them doesn't need any eq either. That is my favorite jub config. The 402 on its own needs a little eq to go two way. There are passives with the eq built in and also settings for various electronic crossovers. Lots of ways to get there with the 402 that sound awesome. I'd like to have some 402 and 510 horns some day as well. Can't wait to see what other horn designs Roy has in the works.

Have you seen the Heli001 thread on his jubilees? He posted some curves.

[mikebse2a3]

I like the 403 because it doesn't need any eq. This is with the b&c de82tn.

Hey seti your statement is a good example of one of the great widespread misunderstandings about horns.

The K403 is the "EQ"

It's using a collasping vert polar as many horns have done to compensate for the natural rolloff of the compression driver.

The problem with this approach is "to have a flat on axis response" also requires the horn to be very unflat and inaccurate off axis.

This doesn't mean we can't get good sound with horns like this of course but don't be deceived it is a less accurate approach. The density and temporal decay in a room vs frequency is greatly affected by this inaccuracy.

It might help to look at it this way. If a horn is accurate and treats all frequencies that we ask it to reproduce in both the amplitude, phase and polar domains then horns with collasping polars are innacurate. They color the off axis energy to compensate(EQ) the on-axis response.

Both accurate on-axis and off-axis response has potential advantages that these collasping horns can never acheive by their design.

So sorry but if EQ is going to be used as a dirty word I'm afraid your K403 uses EQing acoustically and at the same time it is coloring(EQing in a bad way) all of the vertical off axis angles.

The advantage a horn like the K402 offers is this acoustical accuracy in both on-axis and off-axis that the collasping polar design can never offer.

miketn