elitedemo Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Look at who and where this "free speech" issue started and let's see if they get away with it....My guess is they will because it evidently isn't against the law to have false propaganda being spread (see my link above) by Religious zealots from our borders even if it causes Religious zealots in other countries to kill Americans...Yelling fire in a theater is not allowed, but this issue is par for the course because we do have freedom of speech, although the ones making it don't understand the power of the Word (or don't care). I doubt the attack is a direct relation to that foolish movie trailer. If false propaganda was against the law we wouldn't have a single politician left. Looking at what the ambassador did over there its likely a retaliation against him and our efforts, not to mention the date in question. It's to bad we need to have loss of life because we have our noses in everyones backyard and if we are going to have our noses in everybodies backyard we should at least be well enough defended that those individuals involved in the attacks were neutrilized immediatly. You would think in areas that are unstable you would provide a buffer to security... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Look at who and where this "free speech" issue started and let's see if they get away with it....My guess is they will because it evidently isn't against the law to have false propaganda being spread (see my link above) by Religious zealots from our borders even if it causes Religious zealots in other countries to kill Americans...Yelling fire in a theater is not allowed, but this issue is par for the course because we do have freedom of speech, although the ones making it don't understand the power of the Word (or don't care). I doubt the attack is a direct relation to that foolish movie trailer. If false propaganda was against the law we wouldn't have a single politician left... I purposefully used the word "false" in conjunction with "propaganda," because the latter has an element of truth in it's definition and it is libelous in this country to spread outright lies about an individual. That said, propaganda works and the September 11th date was important in this scenario. If you connect the dots you will see that Pastor Terry Jones actually contacted reporters in Egypt to let them know he was airing the movie on that date...With all of that in mind, the truthful part of that propaganda was that a prominent American pastor was airing it on September 11th and made it seem like Americans were celebrating it...Of course MOST Americans found the film abhorrent (or paid no attention), but on the other side of the world it made great political propaganda, in a place where they assume our religious leaders speak for the people as they do there... Insofar as Libya is concerned, Ambassador Chris Stevens was/is going to be seen as a Hero to the majority of the Libyan people, and the US engaging as part of the liberating force that got rid of Gaddafi was seen as a positive thing...That said, I agree we shouldn't be "sticking our noses" unilaterally in other countries businesses and Iraq aside, that was a ramification of the events of September 11, 2001. We are also part of the Global community and to continue to be a leader (and in the Nuclear Age) must use our Military wisely, because those are the people that have bared most of the brunt since 9/11...Imo those people are Heroes as well. My last 2 cents on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Have any of you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aWl8mUSDIwU Some things may seem far fetched but others are quite shocking. I watched the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Have any of you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aWl8mUSDIwU Some things may seem far fetched but others are quite shocking. I watched the whole thing. I get it...This was posted as propaganda just as the idiotic "Muhammad Movie" was. I hate seeing both because it does nothing but spread false information and make the lowest common denominator of people believe in conspiracy theories that they are susceptible to...Anybody sitting through that crap to the end after watching the first 20 minutes and thinking there is some truth to it is being brainwashed into believing something that is not true . [bs] Of course, that is the purpose of the video and as you mentioned it is farfetched... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 To even mention that video in this tread and the idiots that consider it is beyond STUPID.Every year I think people could not get much dumber, but still they do........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 To even mention that video in this tread and the idiots that consider it is beyond STUPID.Every year I think people could not get much dumber, but still they do........ Well, yes, and then not-so-much. America was able to set aside Japans attack on Pearl Harbor by the early 1950's. It was not forgiven. It was understood that those events were over and that the threat Japan once posed was gone. America and Japan were able to move forward constructively. This is not the case with 9/11. Those animosities remain deeply furrowed, perhaps even deeper than when 9/11 occurred. Nobody has won and nobody has surrendered. But this was forgotten or at least discounted, by our current leadership. By any credible account Benghazi was (and is) a clear hotbed of militant Islamic violence. That is why Britain closed down its Benghazi mission months ago. Our own Red Cross was assaulted there just this past summer. Why our Ambassador to Libya was there on 9/11 without a whisper of adequate protection is scandalous. This is why we need to keep 9/11 firmly set. It is not over with. I am uncertain it will ever be 'over with'. But we have got to be smarter than we demonstrated in Benghazi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 To even mention that video in this tread and the idiots that consider it is beyond STUPID.Every year I think people could not get much dumber, but still they do........ ...This is not the case with 9/11. Those animosities remain deeply furrowed, perhaps even deeper than when 9/11 occurred. Nobody has won and nobody has surrendered. But this was forgotten or at least discounted, by our current leadership. . Well...This is a Klipsch Speaker Forum and some have already complained that their "Free Speech" has been tread upon, but I can't help but think if the discussion keeps on this path this thread will be shut down...Keep in mind between 9/11 and the Benghazi murder we invaded Iraq and are still feeling the repercussions today. That said, remember which administration accomplished the goal of getting Bin Laden and if we didn't veer off into Iraq that could have been accomplished considerably sooner. Btw, it was the goal of Al Qaeda's leadership to start a religious war and the last administration played right into it... My last comment on this subject. In before the lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 tkd- For the most part I think we are in agreement. I would aver that this murky conflict is much older than 9/11/2001. 9/11 was simply the greatest of the useless tragedies. Because of its impact 9/11 has become iconic of these hostilities for both sides of the aisle. 9/11 is also a turning point, a wake up call for the west, that we are not immune or protected or isolated. Today the conflict does continue and whomever is charged with deciding how those interactions work must error on the side of caution. That's my problem with Benghazi. I do not care who was President, a Benghazi should not have occurred. We know better now, or at least we should. This is why we cannot forget about 9/11, not yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 tkd- For the most part I think we are in agreement. I would aver that this murky conflict is much older than 9/11/2001. 9/11 was simply the greatest of the useless tragedies. Because of its impact 9/11 has become iconic of these hostilities for both sides of the aisle... I agree that this conflict goes farther back than 9/11/2001 but how far back do we want to go? 1948? Keep in mind that the modern state of Israel was established because of Jewish "terrorism" and if we go back farther we then have the fighting between Christians and Muslims all of the way back to when the Romans conquered the region and kicked out (read: killed and displaced) the Jewish people in the first century CE. I apologize for getting religious, political or a combination of both but 9/11 was a turning point in my thought process and I don't want to see an Armageddon situation become a self-fulfilling prophecy in our Nuclear Age for any side. I also definitely don't see this as Democratic or Republican situation because both sides realize what we've put our military through in the last decade and the start of this one. Those people are heroes and we owe it to them and their families to have a thoughtful Foreign Policy going forward, not to mention the Diplomats that are in harms way. {EDIT: Btw, I agree that the Benghazi murders shouldn't have occurred, but I don't blame the current administration.} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 There's no doubt that religions are involved and must be part of any conversation on the topic. In these events I believe religion is used as more of a foundational pretext than any sincere spiritual goal. The entire mess is horrifically unfortunate and America is unfortunately hip deep in the quagmire for any number of well understood reasons. Modern technology applied with archaic mindsets presents a very complex and deadly circumstance. Still we cannot unring the bell and any who ignore that fact are likely doomed to hear it peal time and time again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Seventy-two raisins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I dunno Dee, making fun of Islam on a thread about 9/11 seems in bad taste.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Michael J. Fox introduces Firefighter Mike Moran, Rudy Giuliani & Sean McCain, son of Firefighter Tom McCain. From the concert for New York recorded October 20, 2001 at Madison Square Garden. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1EoZ_nwYIk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted September 20, 2012 Moderators Share Posted September 20, 2012 I dunno Dee, making fun of Islam on a thread about 9/11 seems in bad taste.... OK, if you think that's bad you should hear some of the stuff I tell my Muslim son-in-law, he is from Saudi. [:|] I have to say I do think a little differently about the people in that country after having talked to him as much as I have. Most people from his country have a different opinion about things than you may think they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Found some more interesting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I dunno Dee, making fun of Islam on a thread about 9/11 seems in bad taste.... OK, if you think that's bad you should hear some of the stuff I tell my Muslim son-in-law, he is from Saudi. I have to say I do think a little differently about the people in that country after having talked to him as much as I have. Most people from his country have a different opinion about things than you may think they have. I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean but would they find Dee's post funny when this thread is supposed to be about commemorating 9/11? Fwiw, I too speak to Saudis on a regular basis and agree they have a different opinion on ALOT of things but I can't imagine they would on this topic. One of my best friends worked with/for Prince Bandar bin Sultan for almost 20 years before she retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I dunno Dee, making fun of Islam on a thread about 9/11 seems in bad taste.... Making fun of Islam anywhere, anytime, anyplace at all, ever could easily get one killed or others that don't even know about the "fun". Killin'n people for saying stuff, or having to beg forgiveness for someones speech, or is shameful.I liked the idea of free speech, not here of course it's Klipsch site, but in public.Too bad it's not supported by the government, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I dunno Dee, making fun of Islam on a thread about 9/11 seems in bad taste.... Making fun of Islam anywhere, anytime, anyplace at all, ever could easily get one killed or others that don't even know about the "fun". Killin'n people for saying stuff, or having to beg forgiveness for someones speech, or is shameful.I liked the idea of free speech, not here of course it's Klipsch site, but in public.Too bad it's not supported by the government, like it or not. What are you talking about? [:|] When was the last time you heard of anyone being arrested, much less killed in this country for doing what you suggest? [bs] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Found some more interesting stuff. I wasn't going to respond, but given the comments above I guess I'd better. [:S] More conspiratorial crap Kain. Anyone looking into the facts knows that Osama Bin Laden was the inspiration for the 9/11 attack and President Bush didn't see it coming--Insofar as your first link is concerned he was notorious for misspeaking, and I didn't click on your second link because after the first two it would be a waste of time...If you are a Muslim, just know most Americans can differentiate between Al Qaeda and Muslims that share the same values as literate Spiritual and secular folks and that is one of the things that makes this country GREAT... Yes we have "Free Speech," but along with that comes the baggage of not everything is worth listening to or reading and one needs to separate fact from fiction and know when their buttons are being pushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 And the check is in the mail, and you believe the Warren report! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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