Ten Years have flown by.

[CECAA850]

As an individual with some added insight on the powers that be here at the Klipsch Forum, I can give you one reason in particular that put them across the line: Religion. It is strictly verboten for good historic reason. Anyone who has been in this group for any length of time will know that.

Dave I don't have much time to respond to this now but I respectfully disagree. Should the thread in general for the man with terminal cancer be locked down because many have brought religion in the form of prayer for this person..? miketn

Maybe it's religious debate and not religion per se that's the issue?

[Zen Traveler]

Mark, if you wish to discuss, you know where to take it.

There were no ethical, moral, or legal questions discussed. When religion came up, you did not, as someone who has been here awhile should, indicate it was not appropriate and decline to respond. Given your post count, that suggests to me you were looking for a lock. You got it.

No further discussion of this here from me.

Dave

[bs] There was only one reference to Religion in the last 9 pages and it was brought up by a person that wasn't really involved in the discussion except to do so. You can't blame Mark for that.

[mark1101]

I also felt the NBS Topology thread should not have been shutdown. My feeling is that it was an unfortunate situation and not a pleasurable discusion. However, anyone who has been around here for the last 10 years knows both individuals, has probably purchased for one or both, and probably has some connection to either or both no matter how slight that might be. It was interesting, informative, and I learned from it.

I will also say that I agree with forum member JWC that a future "positive" as a result of that thread would be further discussions about the JMA designs, schematics, etc. as an educational exercise. Also to ensure those who own JMA products have the information necessary to not only understand them further but to ensure they can get them serviced.

[Zen Traveler]

Religion. It is strictly verboten for good historic reason.

Where was religion discussed in that thread? I can tell you. A guy with no stake in the content whatsoever, posted a few times that he considered it impossible for a moral question to exist without G-- as a lawgiver....

I had to go back and check and while doing so see you came to the same observation. For the record, I can see where Religious discussion should maybe be shut down on a speaker Forum but that was NOT one until the poster we are talking about got involved...

[Deang]

I sure agree with that.

I would still like to respond to your questions and insinuations but will probably just let it go. I should have just stayed out of that thing and I apologize for getting involved in something that wasn't any of my business.

[Zen Traveler]

You're thinking back to 2002 and 2005 when adult controversy was the actual DRAW here that made it interesting.

You bring up a good point. It's not only happening here it has happened on one of my favorite Forums, the AVS Forum. There discussion was always lively and there were good debates but over the last few years there has been a juvenile element that has taken over and it can't be good for quality audio discussions. Note to Amy: PLEASE don't start a "thumbs up" feature on this forum. [:S]

[Deang]

[Y]

[Zen Traveler]

[:S]

.

.

.

[]

{Edit: Okay so I appreciate a bit of juvenile humor with my adult discussions as the next guy--Good one, Dean. }

[Mallette]

Okies, gents. Appears I am odd man out. That's fine.

As I value the opinions of some, I went back and did a reality check.

It still looks like two kids having a playground fistfight over a marbles match. I see absolutely nothing of value.

If that means I need to "grow up," I think I'll pass.

Dave

[Mallette]

Gibberish, Mark. If you don't understand the concepts of simile, metaphor, and analogy, Google it.

Dave

[CECAA850]

Congratulations Tom for 10 years on the forum, I apologize if I assisted in any way (which I did[]) in derailing your thread.

Carl

[Zen Traveler]

Gibberish, Mark. If you don't understand the concepts of simile, metaphor, and analogy, Google it.

Dave

I understand it perfectly, and I am asking why all yours are VIOLENT?

To paraphrase something my mom told me: Sticks and Stones can break your bones but Words have a completely different meaning when someone is wrong on the internet...

[Amy]

I just noticed that I have passed ten years as a member on this great forum

I see this thread has gotten WAY off topic, and for that I apologize, Tom. Congrats on hanging out in this looney bin for 10 years. [Y] [Y] (that was just for tdkamerica [])

To everyone else, I will simply say, YOU CAN'T PLEASE THEM ALL. And yes, that was yelling in all caps. Good natured yelling, just to get my point across.

As you are all aware, people take posts in a myriad of different ways. While someone is personally offended, someone else may think is a hilarious joke. I mostly stay out of things, unless it is specifically brought to my attention.

My role is to make this a place where all audio enthusiasts can find useful information and hopefully make some friends. Not to feel uncomfortable, targeted, insulted, or slandered... or to cater to every single person's opinion, which is an impossibility that I neither have time nor care to even attempt. If you are outraged by my sheriffing (sheriffing?), I'm sure there are uglier forums who would be glad to have you.

That's all I have to say about that.

Side note: if anyone else would like to make a weak attempt an insulting my gender, keep in mind I'm eye-ball deep in an industry dominated by men, and have been for 13 years. Have at it. My skin has grown quite thick.

There. That's my smack down post for the year. Talk amongst yourselves.

(Sorry again, Tom. I hope you stick around for another 10. [] )

[Fjd]

BTW, for those who'd like a taste of the Wild Wild Forum of old, take a look a the NBS topology thread. It's a real mudslinger and I am frankly surprised the Sheriff hasn't stepped in.

Dave

I don't know you; however, I have read many of your posts

in the past as parts of various threads that I’ve found interesting and I believe

you to be educated, have a variety of interests, and may be recognized as a

professional in your field of work.

Therefore, you must come in contact with people of very diverse views

and have needed to navigate, and properly acknowledge, that diversity to be respected in your field?

In addition, I’m trying not to be judgmental

here myself, but looking for clarification, since you state that you are the “odd man out,” I saw the above post of yours on

page 2 of this thread and just did not understand the purpose of this post,

other than to just spread child-like gossip and inflame members to actually

focus on the topology thread, especially since you do seem to be chastising

in others what could be viewed as similar behavior, and seem to want to take a position of a senior forum

member that other forum members should look up to (note that this may not be your intention; however, it is how I perceive the tone of

your posts).

All of these interactions of over the last week now remind me of another

of our recurring corporate trainings that relate to working in diverse groups and

how to embrace diversity in our colleagues and peers, and learn from that diversity, how develop synergies in our work. I suspect I can look at the forum members as

a 'diverse group' in many respects and now in conjunction with our trainings I have begun to think

about a few things more specifically, and draw a few observations, including

how well groups of diverse people may work together as teams.

In doing so, first I felt I needed to revisit and think about what could

‘politically correct’ actually mean or accomplish to most people that either

had specific training in the area or have not had any formal training in this

area. I realize that some people have hid behind the shield of 'political correctness' as a form of censorship; however, for example, I focused more on the aspect if ‘politically correct’ actually

eliminates prejudices (or even judgmental behavior where people form conclusions without obtaining and evaluating all of the facts) or has

the tangible result mainly been to help people who don’t wish to offend, to be

aware of the language that may cause offence to people that are different from

themselves? I think of it as do we have

a situation somewhat like ‘locking my door to keep honest people honest, as the

criminal will not respect the lock anyway?’

While I think many ‘get it’ on this forum and want to work together as that is when real learning can occur and differences can be resolved or at least acknowledged like an adult, it seems that

after reading a variety of posts and what I see in certain aspects of society

that I intersect, I believe that we still have a long way to go to eliminate

prejudices (and unfounded judgments). However,

that said, I want to acknowledge that I believe that we have made strides to educate the general population to

not just arbitrarily fear someone or something that is different or view the world differently, and now, in

general, people tend to be more aware of social prejudice and many do realize

the wrong that they were doing in the past.

Therefore, while I believe that, in general, the concept

of ‘political correctness’ made people stop and think about how they treated

people who were different or had different views from their own, I believe that

a portion of this group may feel that they are essentially now "done with the task" because they believe

it is "now better" because they believe that different minority groups or people

with different views "no longer have to deal with the day to day prejudice."

However, we know that is not necessarily the case, as when you look around,

prejudice and judgmental behavior still remains in many aspects of life.

What I have found over the last few days, is

that I see many people that do ‘get it’ and are willing to explore the thoughts behind different views and several seem to have re-evaluated previously held views; however, I believe that the job to

change the views and opinions of people with prejudices has only just begun as

people, in general (as shown during the past week on the forum), have a long way to go in just working together when they

actually do like and respect each other.

[Zen Traveler]

...What I have found over the last few days, is that I see many people that do ‘get it’ and are willing to explore the thoughts behind different views and several seem to have re-evaluated previously held views; however, I believe that the job to change the views and opinions of people with prejudices has only just begun as people, in general (as shown during the past week on the forum), have a long way to go in just working together when they actually do like and respect each other.

I am afraid you are going to have to stop posting such thought provoking stuff, because when it was more BS it was easy to find other things to do. [O] []

[Fjd]

...What I have found over the last few days, is that I see many people that do ‘get it’ and are willing to explore the thoughts behind different views and several seem to have re-evaluated previously held views; however, I believe that the job to change the views and opinions of people with prejudices has only just begun as people, in general (as shown during the past week on the forum), have a long way to go in just working together when they actually do like and respect each other.

I am afraid you are going to have to stop posting such thought provoking stuff, because when it was more BS it was easy to find other things to do.

I wanted to see if I could apply what we are taught in various real life settings; however, it's killing me as I've had to work until 2 am the last few days to get my day job done. []

[Amy]

I can see I insulted you by using the term "mom" in place of Sheriff. I apologise, that was unfair.

No, I didn't even see that. I was referencing a thread that no longer exists. []

[CECAA850]

Nice post Frank. Very thoughtful. For a few of us old guys that go back 12 or 13 years here, we fondly recall the most exciting and vibrant moderated audio forum on the Internet - bar none. Some of the brightest people you'd ever want to meet used to be here ready to debate anything related to audio, and even a lot more. They are gone save a few. And the few don't post often. It was an Irish pub without the beer. By which I mean, human intellects, filled with all the normal adult range of ideas and emotions, acting like adults do in real debates. You simply never knew what was going to happen. It had a real-time excitement that was engaging, funny, painful, sorrowful, joyous, obnoxious, intellectual, irreverent and stimulating - all the while being about a nerdy subject of audio. Nothing else on the Internet was like it. Yes, there are a few new as well as old members who get that idea.

The change from that to this was driven by the members, not the moderators. That era reflected the people engaging and driving it, and this one reflects the people engaging and driving it. I do not think the change is based on political correctness, but a general phenomenon much more disturbing and mind numbing. What you see on the forum is what you would see in any public place now - language, debate and discussion being lobotomized and simplified to a few infantile icons and symbols and language limited to "140 characters."

I have no data to go on but I seem to remember more users being banned back in the "good old days" than of late. Don't know how anyone other than a moderator could check.

[CECAA850]

I have no data to go on but I seem to remember more users being banned back in the "good old days" than of late. Don't know how anyone other than a moderator could check.

Yes, of course.

What would get a guy banned today----posting too many beer steins?

No but I doubt that the criteria has changed over the years.

[CECAA850]

No but I doubt that the criteria has changed over the years.

What's the point you are trying to make?

Simply that the "Irish Pub" days of old had debates that ultimately ended up in forum members being banned. My point being that the reason some back and forths don't occur today, is because the past members that participated in them aren't here anymore. Some, not by their own choosing. It wasn't always well thought out debate, that's all. There were plenty of heated exchanges that didn't seem amicable to me.