Marvel Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Very cool, and looks to be a lot easier to make. not happy with that project due to size and weight of the finished product. This was why I had looked at balsa. Perhaps a foam of some kind would have worked. I'm going to read a bunch on the link you provided.I always learn something from all the work and experimentation you have done. It is really appreciated. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Bruce, I have seen a post somewhere of a similar build with foam. I don't know what effect a soft surface like that would do in practice. Balsa wood would certainly be a good option. I could not easily find a light wood that was price competitive with plywood. The other issue is the stability of the wood for a build such as this. The thickest panel I built weighs in at 32 pounds. The lightest weights in at 22. Considering the weight carried by my kitchen cabinets on french cleats, I'm not worried about the weight of the diffuser. What makes this design very attractive is the relatively light and easy to carry modular design. Mine are ready to hang. I am waiting on finishing the absorbers and super chunk bass traps. I want to start with room measurements with no treatments prior to installing anything I have built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Rudy you should measure first without any treatment to have a base or starting point for reference, then as you add traps measure and note the changes. Placement will play a part in the changes too, so do expirement with location. Do you plan on putting traps on the walls? Or just clouds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Rudy you should measure first without any treatment to have a base or starting point for reference, then as you add traps measure and note the changes. Placement will play a part in the changes too, so do expirement with location. Do you plan on putting traps on the walls? Or just clouds? That is the plan, which is why I have not hung the diffusers. I just finished the bass traps for the ceiling cloud (4) and the side wall reflection points (6). Next step is to build 3 corner super chunk (4' each) for the wall-ceiling corners at the main reflection points and the wall-ceiling just above the diffusers at the rear wall. Last will be the floor to ceiling super chunk corners at the four main corners of the room. Still a lot of work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Sounds like you have a firm grip on what needs to be done but, I would do the floor to ceiling corners first. Those are the ones that will yeild you the most improvement!!! Then do the reflection and walls... Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 Sounds like you have a firm grip on what needs to be done but, I would do the floor to ceiling corners first. Those are the ones that will yeild you the most improvement!!! Then do the reflection and walls... Jay I figure on getting everything ready and then starting the tuning process. I have to figure out how to easily cut the denim insulation. I know from reading about this product that it is rather difficult to cut. I will come up with some method to both be accurate and simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Sounds like you have a firm grip on what needs to be done but, I would do the floor to ceiling corners first. Those are the ones that will yeild you the most improvement!!! Then do the reflection and walls... Jay I figure on getting everything ready and then starting the tuning process. I have to figure out how to easily cut the denim insulation. I know from reading about this product that it is rather difficult to cut. I will come up with some method to both be accurate and simple. I just got a bag of the R19 stuff from Lowes... Waiting to see how you cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Share Posted July 13, 2014 From what I have read, the best ways to cut the stuff are as follows. Use a table saw or circular saw with the blade turned backward. The other option is with a tool called a shut-n-cut and a sharp knife. Currently, I am leaning toward making a shut-n-cut type table and finding a good knife. My research leads me to believe that the usual methods for cutting insulation won't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) This is what I found on their website... "What is the best way to cut UltraTouch? We have found the simplest way to cut UltraTouch is to score it with a utility knife against a straight edge or use a beveled (toothless) saw blade in a small utility saw." http://www.soundrite-acoustics.com/Ultra-Touch-Insulation-Denim-Fiber-Soundproofing_17.aspx Edited July 14, 2014 by ellisr63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share Posted July 14, 2014 This is what I found on their website... "What is the best way to cut UltraTouch? We have found the simplest way to cut UltraTouch is to score it with a utility knife against a straight edge or use a beveled (toothless) saw blade in a small utility saw." http://www.soundrite-acoustics.com/Ultra-Touch-Insulation-Denim-Fiber-Soundproofing_17.aspx Thank you. I will have to try that option. The idea to score it likely involves tearing the product, and I want to get a nice edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 So far I haven't had to cut any, as I am using it for my Bass Trap Soffits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicook Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 I used an electric knife - an electric turkey carving knife to cut through rock wool to build my bass traps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 When I made my 2' x 4' panels I just made the frame so that the inside dimensions were about an eighth of an inch smaller than the actual dimensions of the Owens Corning 703. No cutting was required and the rigid panels were held in by friction nicely. Not that it would be an issue but just FYI... boronated products can lose their flammability, bug, and mold protection. If the product ever gets wet the boron can be washed out and the protection is lost. This is what can be bad about cellulose insulation in your attic if you have ever had a roof leak. Just something to think about if it ever got wet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Slow progress made on the corner frames and cutting the denim insulation. I am making some frames to suspend corner super chunks at the wall/ceiling corners at the reflection points and rear wall. I will be hanging the frames with french cleats. Again, goal was to make them as simply and as light as possible. After much research I decided to try a DIY solution to cutting the insulation. I was initially going to try Ultratouch's suggestion of a table saw or radial arm saw with a fine tooth blade mounted backwards. However, due to the thickness of the R30 I would be cutting without being able to see the blade and frankly, that was just too dangerous for my taste. The batts are thick and I just could not find a machine to use with safety in mind. I decided to build a jig that would hold the insulation, clamped between two pieces of plywood. I tried a sharp knife, and it cut very well....just took some elbow grease. I have since obtained a $30 electric fillet knife and it is working very well using the jig. I hope it lasts long enough to cut it all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Finished the super chunk assemblies today. The electric knife worked ok, but not nearly as well as a sharp knife I commandeered from the kitchen. I promised my wife a new knife set....she then had no problem giving me the knife. That knife, in combination with my jig, works extremely well. Very clean cuts and not too much effort. The key has been to keep the knife as sharp as possible. No dust or mess to speak of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 I forgot to ask. I want to test the absorbers I made to see how effective they are. Any idea on how to test their absorption? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Do you have a means to play a speaker outdoors? I would measure by starting with a far field ground plane measurement of the speaker. Then with that as a reference, I would put the absorber right in front of the mic (nearly touching)...maybe remove any rear panel if it's wood or something. You should see the frequency response dip based on the absorption of the panel....then double it for placement on the wall since the sound travels through at least twice. The other way to do it is with a 360 degree speaker and treating a large percentage of the room and then capturing the total measured power response before and after. Divide the attenuation by the percentage of coverage. This approach requires an acoustically large room, so it's only valid at high frequencies usually...h Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 DrWho, I could do this outside, but that is generally a pain to set up. I might try something in the room itself. I have some ideas on how to enclose the mic in the denim insulation and see what it can 'hear'.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Nothing constructive to add here. Just wanted to pop my head in and say "great thread" Rudy. Very instructional and informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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