A few new Reference subs for your booty

[Scrappydue]

Agrees. JTR is the reason I left my thx ultra setup. They provide some really fantastic I products. I am gonna go hear the new 215 soon. It's the only ones of their line I haven't heard

[Paducah Home Theater]

Subwoofers were an afterthought as the market demanded them during the beginning of the home theater movement.

What you said makes sense. It just hasn't evolved much from that point in terms of mainstream offerings. I mean, today's hardcore home theaters have evolved way beyond the point of having a lightweight sub with a plate amp in the low 3-digit range. Typically it's either DIY or throw money at JTR or similar, usually DIY. I suppose the marketing people know not many will sell, but it would be nice if there was some better solutions that let people take advantage of what is truly possible with home subs without having to spend tons of hours and money experimenting with DIY stuff. It's kinda fun, or at least it was when I was younger, but I'm to the point that I've got enough responsibilities that I think it would be nice to have a turn-key slamming solution without having to mess with the nuts and bolts as much. I don't have as much time and patience to finish my cabs perfectly for example, and I typically always wish I did something differently when I'm done.

[Scrappydue]

Well to me the cheaper alternatives to JTR would be the seaton submersive. Then after that you gotta step down to only 15" offerings. Hsu, psa, and then Svs. The seaton submersive would be wherey money would go most likely if I were to get out of diy and back into regular sub offerings

[Chad]

Just had a demo of a pair of R-115SW here. If your hair dryer broke and you needed your hair dried, those would work in a pinch.

 

Holy air movement, Batman.

[Youthman]

You should have video taped it to share with the rest of us.

[Chad]

You should have video taped it to share with the rest of us.

 

In the works ;-)

[Youthman]

Can't wait to see it in action.

[Tremors]

 

If the 15" can be had for 500ish it will be a good value. 70% of 900 would be 630ish Not bad if money really tight.

Maybe Newegg will buy a few truckloads

 

That's pretty funny.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I haven't mentioned it before but I actually have two of the new 15's.  In the process of installing them right now.  First impressions? 

 

The good:  They will obviously be more musical and active at low volumes than my 18's just by thumping on the cones.  My 18's sound like you're just tapping on a desktop due to being so stiff.  These things, tap on them and you hear a nice THUMP.  Huge difference.  Also the cones look killer, it's like RF-7ii's on steroids.  They really look nice.  The port has got to be pretty commanding. 

 

They are really friggin heavy for what they are.  I've seen several all-in-one solution subs and the sheer heft of this thing easily surpasses the ones I've seen.  Sheer weight on the spec sheet aside, I know what an 18" UltiMax in a heavily braced 13-ply Baltic birch cabinet feels like, because I built two of the things then had to move them into my theater room.  These are every bit as awkward. 

 

 

The not so good:  They look pretty bad next to RF-7ii's.  Even if they sound good up front I'm moving them somewhere else.  Really wish the top of the line sub model could have been covered in real wood veneer to match the gorgeous RF-7ii's.  Otherwise they seem to be really promising for what they are.  I don't expect them to "move the foundation" or anything but to complement a bigger Reference II setup, especially for music, especially at lower (normal) volumes, they are probably great. 

 

 

ok, breaks over, install time. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Youthman]

Metropolis, once you get it setup, we would love to hear your review and some photos of your new toys.

[CECAA850]

Metropolis, once you get it setup, we would love to hear your review and some photos of your new toys.

 

I would as well.

[Paducah Home Theater]

I've got one going.  Unfortunately I'm surprised to learn that apparently you can't use one wireless transmitter going to two subs, they have to be paired up.  Turning a second wireless receiver on knocks out the first one.  So, I guess you have to run a wireless receiver for every sub unless I'm missing something.  Very surprised it works like this.  I have to do some reading and maybe order some splitters, I dunno. 

 

First impression based on sound is that one is nice for normal volumes, it compliments my RF-7ii's pretty well.  They aren't playing at the obnoxious levels that my dual 18's and iNuke 6000 plays at but this is actually much more accurate.  No super low movies yet but kick drums are plenty low and effects are rumbly for Metallica.  The explosion on the intro to "One" sounds just as low as I've ever experienced it, and one sub is keeping up just fine.  Two should be pretty killer, if I can figure out this danged transmitter. 

Edited October 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Paducah Home Theater]

Ok, I got them going.  My official opinion is that on two-channel music they are a little boomy compared to what I'm used to and not as tight as I expected but can sound surprisingly good if you cross it over pretty low.  I at least thought I had the subs at 80 hz and below coming from the receiver.  I still had to use the low pass filter on the subs to kill the boomy high end.  They can go pretty low, they sound killer in the next room, haven't figured out the best in-room setup yet.  I moved them all around the room, they are super loud in the front corners but in the boomy frequencies.  I put them behind my seats and they sound pretty good so far.  Once I quit rearranging I'll run Audessey with SubEQ and see if it sounds any better. 

 

However, I just realized that after I wrote the above paragraph, my Metallica movie had reverted back to two channel version.  I just switched to the 5.1 channel version and HOLY COW.  The house is shaking.  Jeez.  These things can flex. They are sounding SURPRISINGLY nice right now. 

Edited October 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Paducah Home Theater]

Ok, my wife is officially mad at me.  I'm shocked really.  At the end of Enter Sandman when the roadie smashes the hammer and Rider shatters, there is really low material that literally shook the entire house.  Dishes in the kitchen were rattling.  I jam out to this movie ALL the time, and really push my 18's with it, yet I have never heard this before.  I was literally getting a full body massage that felt tingly when it stopped.  These things are nuts. 

[CECAA850]

Are they in the same location as your old subs?

[fuzzydog]

 

 

Klipsch has no current plans to release a sub that is better than the R-115SW at this time.

BOOOO.......Not even in cherry to match my RF7 IIs. Are these made in America or China?

 

 

Yeah Chad, how about some real wood veneers for a "minimal" premium over the standard vinyl subs?

 

Bill

 

 

Ditto…wouldn't have to hide it behind a chair like i do now.

[Paducah Home Theater]

Are they in the same location as your old subs?

No, my 18's were/are straight to the side of me, that's where they sounded the best, try as I might to put them most anywhere else. These didn't sound all that great there for some reason. I put them behind my seats and they're awesome there, but I literally put them all around my room, in the corners, on the sides, in the front, even in the front corners facing backwards, nothing sounded nearly as good, it was killing the super low stuff and boosting the high stuff. The weird thing is that I've tried my 18's behind the seats and they sounded horrible. Probably something to do with ported vs. sealed, I don't know.

Edited October 24, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Heritage_Head]

A sub behind the seats is the sh..t. !!

Edited October 25, 2014 by reference_head

[Scrappydue]

Probably something to do with ported vs. sealed, I don't know.

 I'm sorry but i still have a very hard time believing that the klipsch sub can hang with a quality diy setup. however i remember you saying that you never ran the dsp and what not on your sealed subs. so they were not set up properly AT ALL. sounded like crap behind you? cause they were not setup for it. now if we are talking output, MAYBE the klipsch can keep up down to low 20's, but as i expected you already said they have sounded boomy. which seems to be pretty typical of the klipsch subs minus a few rsw, and rt series. 

 

sorry but i feel until you set up your ultimax properly it isn't a fair fight AT ALL

[Paducah Home Theater]

i remember you saying that you never ran the dsp and what not on your sealed subs. so they were not set up properly AT ALL.

In all seriousness, what is playing with the DSP going to gain me when they're already going about as hard as they can go? Typically people play with the DSP to boost the output as sealed subs start to roll off in order to match what a ported sub would do, which is completely understandable. However, I'm already bottoming the things out, which yes a DSP would help due to the limiters, but when I back the gain off and they're not bottoming out but still going as hard as they can go without blowing up, what exactly is a DSP going to do to get more sound at that point? I truly don't understand this. I completely understand boosting at the roll-off and setting up limiters, but unfortunately the laws of physics still apply when you're running a sub about as hard as you can, so I don't see how you're going to squeeze tons more sound out of it by playing with the DSP at that point but I could be wrong.

 

sounded like crap behind you? cause they were not setup for it.

They sounded like crap because there was rear staging. I could tell the subs were sitting right behind me. They were too close to hear the super low bass and I honestly don't think that a sealed sub would ever do otherwise. Yeah the output was a little lower comparatively with the frequencies I'm talking about, but my #1 complaint was that when I did this there was rear staging, which simply isn't correct and will never be correct no matter how loud it technically is on an spl meter. With the Klipsch, the sound engulfed me and shook the hell out of my seats. I can only assume it was because of the port.

Something in regards to the quarter wavelength rule makes sub-bass do this. That's why back in the day in SPL competitions in cars we used to put the microphone under the dash way up where your toes would be on the floorboard. It's loudest there, especially at lower frequencies, due to being furthest away from the subs. Where it was the LEAST loudest, is right in front of the subs, especially in a sealed box, all you can hear is the concussion of the driver, not deep sub-bass, which is what was happening with the ultimax. I honestly think what I was experiencing is the same exact phenomenon. If so, I don't care what you do with a DSP, you're not going to fix it by changing the settings.

As for the boominess, "sloppy" is probably a better word. Boomy would mean it is loud up high and not so much down low, but a location change got my super low stuff super loud so I don't know if I can continue to use that word. I think the peaks in the upper areas were at least in part due to the location and the two channel mix instead of 5.1.

My biggest complaint in this regard wasn't as much as the peaks here, but the sloppiness, producing weird sounds on material that I am very familiar with. I'm not going to lie about this. They seemed uncontrolled in the upper areas compared to my ultimax's, which, hell, they're super stiff and in a sealed box stuffed with poly, shouldn't be a huge surprise. One of my favorite sounds with subwoofers is a super tight chest beating kick drum with a really powerful attack and nothing that lingers, which is what it has to sound like for a double bass drum to sound good, otherwise it is a sloppy mess. I simply could not get these to produce this sound the way I like even after finding a good combination of location, material, and crossover settings. That has nothing to do with being boomy or loud, it was just kind of sloppy. Again, possibly simply the difference between sealed and ported. Whatever it is, my ultimax's are much tighter in this regard, and intricacies / nuances from bass guitars are much more defined as well.

I still enjoyed listening to them with this material but if a kick drum and bass guitar was all that would ever play through them, I'd choose my sealed ultimax's. Sorry, but the super low frequency effects still sounded better on the Klipsch's though, I imagine due to the port.If the Klipsch's were sealed or the UltiMax's were ported, I really do not expect that I would have the same results.

Edited October 25, 2014 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters