willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Hello, My dad has a pair of newer Boston speakers, nothing fancy maybe 100 watts peak. He played them on some HTIB system and they had no bass or mid, and pretty horrible highs. He brought them to my house and plugged them into my Onkyo 809 connected to my 250W Emotiva XPA 100s, and they sounded slightly better but not much. He just bought a 70s Onkyo TX 2500 MK II receiver and they are singing like absolute champs!! I'm trying to wrap my head around why my system of so many more watts couldn't pump these full of song, and a 40wpc 40 year old receiver could. Mind boggling! Any insight? Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Not necessarily the amount of watts. I almost always use less then 30 watts. The thing is good clean signal. In my opinion the signal is much more important then the power. I'm not familiar with Boston speakers. http://www.retrevo.com/samples/Boston-Acoustics-Speaker.html seems to have a poor opinion in my view. Maybe someone here can give better info Edited October 11, 2014 by Taz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Don't get me wrong, the 809/emotiva combo makes my 97db heresies and rf7s sound great but i have to crank it to 75-80 out of 100 on the volume to make it loud. The onkyo tx 2500 mkII was about half way up on 85db sensitivity Boston's and it was LOUD! Makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 You had to crank the Emo's to 75 to 80 to make your Heresy's "loud"??? Somehow that doesn't feel right....Are you sure everything is set properly? Check again...? And, btw, when you say loud (and do you have an SPL meter?), what does that mean? Just wondering and trying to understand.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I've run audyssey several times, and it's always set the same way. Receiver volume reads -10db when they're "loud" for my 14x20 room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I also use the "intellivolume" feature and boost it +12db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 The Bostons of old sounded pretty good! Not a lot of low end but very natural sound. It took a decent amp to drive them but not huge... they weren't as efficient as Klipsch. I think an old 40 watt receiver would do well... I used a Yamaha A 460 that I believe was around 40 wpc with Boston A150s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Something in your system is not right. You should never be 75 or 80% total volume to get blasting sound out of Klipsch. Remember the RF 7 is rated at 102 db with 1 watt at one meter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I welcome any suggestions, but everything is hooked up properly and all cables are high quality. I've had Harman kardons and denons that never had to be turned up as high. The sound from the onkyo 809 is good, it just has to be at either 70 of 100 for absolute or -15db for relative, depending on volume setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Is there a way to see if the gain on the EMO. is all the way up. I no some amps it is not possible to adjust the gain. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 "and a 40wpc 40 year old receiver could. Mind boggling!" Sounds more like a loudness control to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I've run audyssey several times, and it's always set the same way. Receiver volume reads -10db when they're "loud" for my 14x20 room. What is loud can vary a lot from person to person. What I consider loud would and has had one of the cats upstairs down on her belly crawling from room to room trying to get away from the sound. I was using a marantz 2325 with the volume straight up 12:00 position. No idea what the wattage the amp was putting out at that time. I run Khorns in that room and can get complaints with a 30 watt tube amp without going to the 1200 position on the volume. Is there a way to see if the gain on the EMO. is all the way up. I no some amps it is not possible to adjust the gain. Just a thought. That is certainly worth looking at. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) My Onk 717 (purchased 2012) is the same way in terms of volume. You have to turn it to 70 just to get any kind of sound above a whisper out of it, but that's normal for these newer Onk AVR's. Odyssey sets the volume relative to THX reference level, which is 82. If you're switching from an older receiver, the first time it does feel like something is wrong in the signal chain, but it's all normal. My Onk runs a couple of large Klipsch CF-4 (dual 12" woofers) and when the volume is cranked to 80, it is VERY loud. The speakers can run all day at 90 if my ears could take the pounding. (you can't see the Onk very well, but it is on the top left shelf) Edited October 11, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Digital volume control vs analog volume control, maybe? My previous vintage Marantz 2252B at 52w/ch only needed a slight twist of the volume knob to totally rock out my Heresys. My NAD T773 flagship 52 pound 145w/ch AVR needs several complete twists of the volume knob to achieve the same loudness. I am sure it has something to do with the topology of the volume/voltage gain section of the receivers. Bill Edited October 11, 2014 by willland 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 I gotta say, last night I was thinking of selling all my components (except the speakers) and buying a vintage marantz, onkyo, HK, etc. But hearing from all of you regarding the digital vs analog control has really set my mind at ease. The emotiva amps do not have gain control and neither does the 809 onkyo, really. I'm thankful for all of the helpful solid advice and information, guys. Thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Digital volume control vs analog volume control, maybe? My previous vintage Marantz 2252B at 52w/ch only needed a slight twist of the volume knob to totally rock out my Heresys. My NAD T773 flagship 52 pound 145w/ch AVR needs several complete twists of the volume knob to achieve the same loudness. I am sure it has something to do with the topology of the volume/voltage gain section of the receivers. Bill exactly!! And come on guys everyone on here should know that one guys loud is another guys quiet. To me I agree with the OP. to me nothing is very "loud" till my receiver is at -15 on the volume. Then my "loud" zone would be from there to reference or "0" on the volume. OP just know this, your stuff sounds like its set up fine. As far as the vintage receiver, they pretty much just all sound better. They cared about sound then. Now they care about hdmi, airplay, networking, crap like that. I had a pioneer sx-980 and it made every speaker in my house sound five times better in stereo mode than any of my receivers. Doesn't mean any of my stuff sounds bad by any means. But I'm wiling to trade that for surround sound and hdmi and a remote and stuff like that. My two channel rig will consists of sound vs convienance and sound will win every time. And don't think of the volume "knob" a percentage knob. I can promise you most vintage receivers with klipsch hooked up you will have a hard time reaching "50%" on that volume knob. And half way up is loud and may or may not even be tapping into the potential of say a sx-1980. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willum24 Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 The thing I was most concerned about was blowing up the 809. The emotiva are tanks, but I know onkyo lies on their current models on "actual" power ratings. I was also unaware that the 809 utilized digital control. It has the "pure audio" setting that should keep the signal path anslog as well that I use for my table, is that a bunch of malarky as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I was also unaware that the 809 utilized digital control. It has the "pure audio" setting that should keep the signal path anslog as well that I use for my table, is that a bunch of malarky as well? Digital volume control and digital signal are two different things. You can have a digital controlled(volume) on a pure analog preamp/amp/integrated. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I've run audyssey several times, and it's always set the same way. Receiver volume reads -10db when they're "loud" for my 14x20 room. Audyssey is very likely cutting the channel levels back to -10db or more on the AVR and maybe more than 10. Have you checked the channel levels after running Audyssey? If not, raise them all the same amount as it takes to get your mains back to 0. Or just turn Audyssey off and raise all channels to 0 for music listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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