SWL Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 It has to be set up properly. There's a hundred different ways to screw it up because there are so many options.....and it is clumsy but when you figure it out it's excellent sounding. I've had zero problems with mine in the few years I've owned it but am aware of what others have claimed....guess I got lucky. I would like to check out that Yamaha unit for another system in the house. Thanks for the heads-up. If you come across a DEQ2496 at a good price, I would consider it and not base an opinion on it because of how it sounded in someone else's system that may or may not have been set up properly. I like it that much....but I do realize the Behringer name is very much a discouraging factor. They did some things wrong with this unit but they also did a lot of things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Well all I can say is if you try the Yamaha you will throw rocks at the Behringer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ok, I see....it was hooked up wrong. Was it even hooked up digital? It's a joke in analog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I find my EQ works best set to flat, and to ensure proper isolation I keep it in the closet. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ok, I see....it was hooked up wrong. Was it even hooked up digital? It's a joke in analog. It's like a night a day difference or comparing apples and oranges!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I use the tone control and balance knobs on my Yamaha A-S1000 integrated amp based on where I sit in my living room. My main listening position is a little off axis to the right and just a slight twist to the left with the balance knob will bring the soundstage/imaging right in line. I don't think I have ever used more accurate tone/balance controls than what my Yamaha provides. They really did it right with the A-S1000, 2000, 2100, 3000 integrateds. Bill Edited January 28, 2015 by willland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 EQ has come a long way in the last decade. In my experience EQing a digital file in the digital realm before it is converted to analog can achieve very good results. I would agree with the disdain for old analog EQ units. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's like a night a day difference or comparing apples and oranges!!! That's why I'm asking you if you know that it was in fact hooked up digital and not analog? If it sounded so bad that you would want to "throw rocks at it", that tells me something wasn't right. Off the top of my head, the few things that can totally throw it off.... 1. Set up in analog 2. The gain button on the back set to maximum output 3. Laptop as preamp and DEQ out straight to amp. I my case this sounded terrible....had to go through preamp, then to amp. 4.There's a lot of things that can be set wrong in the menu to say the least. 5. Your friends PEQ/GEQ may not have been set at your personal preference....which is why I said that you can't dismiss it if it wasn't in your room with your gear. Too many ways to totally screw this thing up but when you understand it.....like I said, it sounds very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Your music would be better served with no equalizer at all. I know I am going to be crucified for suggesting such a thing in this forum, but I stand by it. Focus more on ancillaries such as good equipment, speaker/listener position and room treatment. This will reap dividends in good sound that is free of electronic artifacts that more processing adds. Shakey Not from me. Im in total agreement as well. Im not going to say someone can't manually EQ a system to sound better to their ears or get a flatter room response on paper, I am saying I cant do it with AydysseyXT32 or a manual EQ without smearing details and altering the original content to be something it never was in the beginning. I don't believe in modifying the music with boosts, cuts and time mods from reverb or echo with digital filters. Preserve the original content like it was intended, just correct your listening room..... panels and traps work! I agree that panels and traps work, however DSP works as well. I've performed some room correction using REW and JRiver and came out with excellent results (I concentrate EQ in the bass regions - I find if you fix the bass - everything else just kinda straightens out). Here's a peak at my current measured bass response in my room - using an 80hz crossover - thinking about going to 60hz). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) EQ has come a long way in the last decade. In my experience EQing a digital file in the digital realm before it is converted to analog can achieve very good results. I would agree with the disdain for old analog EQ units. When you are dealing with add/subtract/multiply/divide/shift operations on a string of numbers going by, it's easy to see that digital domain equalization filters are perfectly reversible, virtually infinitely adjustable, obey linear superposition (meaning that you can use digital filters in successive steps or types--or all at once with one filter with no difference in quality of output), and that noise isn't a factor at all in the filtering. Phase is also controllable (unlike analog filtering) by using digital FIR filters. Many people don't pick up on this and think of digital equalizers as if they have the same problems as the old analog equalizers: they don't. Conversion back to analog at the output is basically the only place where attention to detail needs to be made--and this is at signal levels that don't require tubes or other esoteric amplification hardware, just a reasonably good DAC--which are found virtually everywhere nowadays. Chris Edited January 27, 2015 by Chris A 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's like a night a day difference or comparing apples and oranges!!! That's why I'm asking you if you know that it was in fact hooked up digital and not analog? If it sounded so bad that you would want to "throw rocks at it", that tells me something wasn't right. Off the top of my head, the few things that can totally throw it off.... 1. Set up in analog 2. The gain button on the back set to maximum output 3. Laptop as preamp and DEQ out straight to amp. I my case this sounded terrible....had to go through preamp, then to amp. 4.There's a lot of things that can be set wrong in the menu to say the least. 5. Your friends PEQ/GEQ may not have been set at your personal preference....which is why I said that you can't dismiss it if it wasn't in your room with your gear. Too many ways to totally screw this thing up but when you understand it.....like I said, it sounds very good. No no no I think you misunderstood me, I wasn't saying that it sounded bad but; it was noisy compaired to the Yamaha!!! It sounded fine and worked great but, I could hear it. The Yamaha is dead quiet, i can turn the gain to full and not hear it at all!!! Hope this clears up the confusion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 No no no I think you misunderstood me, I wasn't saying that it sounded bad but; it was noisy compaired to the Yamaha!!! It sounded fine and worked great but, I could hear it. The Yamaha is dead quiet, i can turn the gain to full and not hear it at all!!! Hope this clears up the confusion... Thanks for trying to clear that up.....but my question still stands.....do you know for sure that the 2496 was in the digital domain rather than analog? Not trying to be cocky....it's just that the DEQ2496 is the quietest EQ I've ever owned. If the Yamaha (it's analog, right?) is even quieter, then I'm even more interested in checking it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4 This ^^^ and these type of applications really have me intrigued since I am almost entirely into digital now. I know nothing about them but it will probably be one of my next purchases. I'll dive in head first and learn as I go like I did with the DEQ. Any comments/experience to share about these units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 No no no I think you misunderstood me, I wasn't saying that it sounded bad but; it was noisy compaired to the Yamaha!!! It sounded fine and worked great but, I could hear it. The Yamaha is dead quiet, i can turn the gain to full and not hear it at all!!! Hope this clears up the confusion... Thanks for trying to clear that up.....but my question still stands.....do you know for sure that the 2496 was in the digital domain rather than analog? Not trying to be cocky....it's just that the DEQ2496 is the quietest EQ I've ever owned. If the Yamaha (it's analog, right?) is even quieter, then I'm even more interested in checking it out. Do a search on google for the yamaha you will find all info you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Just to show a little further what a Digital/DSP EQ can do here's my frequency response of my Cornwalls combined with my subwoofers. The Cornwalls put a slight hump in my measurements at 47hz but over all it looks like a decent measurement - the roll-off at the end is intended. Edited January 30, 2015 by prerich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prerich Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Here's a good link explaining the audio spectrum. http://www.teachmeaudio.com/mixing/techniques/audio-spectrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Are we measuring now, lol. The Mini DSP and REW is similar to the Omnimic System. Omnimic is easier to learn but cost a little more. No need to look at the audio spectrum if one can't do anything without measurements. Otherwise you are guessing. Edited January 30, 2015 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I noticed on Amazon that Fostex has a super tweeter for around 1000 dollars that goes up to 50KHZ. Are these things that good or are we splitting hairs here? JJK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) You'll get a lot of various viewpoints on that, JJ. I am of the opinion that harmonics in the ultrasonic range can and do influence those in the audible range. Dave Edited January 30, 2015 by Mallette 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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