homeskizzle Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I was curious to know what kind of power from the outlet I was drawing at idle vs. movie-listening levels. Much thanks to ellisr63 for getting my thoughts churning. I ordered a P3 Kill A Watt from Newegg.com to roughly see what I was using. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001). I have a HK 3600 as my AVR and my room is 12 X 30. My listening position is 7' from 3 La Scalas. I have a 7.2 configuration. Sides are Sony SSF-5000s and rears are some cheap @ss speakers I got for free. Just trying to give all of my variables. When at idle (-50 on the HK), I am using 93 watts, give or take a watt. When at -15 through -20 on the HK which is the range for which I watch most of my movies , I am at 98 watts. It definitely surprised me that I am not using that much power between idle and "oh crap, this is gonna permanently cause damage to my hearing senses." Just wondering what yall see out there on how much you really need? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 For me, Idel or -80 on the avr has a system usage of 121 watts. If I go to -30 I use around 121 watts, lol. Horn speakers are pretty sweet on the power demands. 121 watts include the TV, BDP, power console, two I Nuke amp, power amp and avr. If I ran all speakers as large it would go up a wee bit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Really lets you know that an amp for most of us is just a waste. Sell the amps buy more subs. Lol 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Steven, I quit making the argument for everyone needing an external amp a long time ago. There are a lot of good avr's out there. I'd say get a tube amp, they are nice to watch in the dark, lol. Edited March 4, 2015 by derrickdj1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) I didn't believe in external amps until I saw the same movie through the same speakers both on the flagship preamps and receiver from Marantz at a similar low'ish volume. I'm sorry to say that the amp setup runs all over my SR-7009 on dynamics. Even made a whole thread about it. It's just not the same. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/154902-dynamics/ Edited March 4, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The advantage to high efficiency speakers is low power. Another thing that people don't think about when buying an am is... Amps are designed to run at a certain power (as an example say arbitrarily 2/3 of max), when you buy a large amp, and are say at 1/3 power you are listening to your amp at a higher distortion than if you had an amp that was matched better to your setup. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Also curious as to what good knowing the wattage would do, or if that's even accurate. Seems like amps would be much more useful. Of course you should be able to kind of convert it at a given fixed voltage, but I believe the simple formula is watts / volts, which at ear blistering levels you're at about 0.8 amps, or 98/120. That's basically saying 25 of the things playing at that level could be put on a single 20 amp breaker. Maybe that's true but I'm kind of shocked if so, especially since this receiver is considered to be high current and rated at 35 amps, up to 60 amps for peak levels. 98 watts at ear blistering levels with a high current home theater receiver makes no sense. Edited March 4, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) Also curious as to what good knowing the wattage would do, or if that's even accurate. Seems like amps would be much more useful. Of course you should be able to kind of convert it at a given fixed voltage, but I believe the simple formula is watts / volts, which at ear blistering levels you're at about 0.8 amps, or 98/120. That's basically saying 25 of the things playing at that level could be put on a single 20 amp breaker. Maybe that's true but I'm kind of shocked if so, especially since this receiver is considered to be high current and rated at 35 amps, up to 60 amps for peak levels. 98 watts at ear blistering levels with a high current home theater receiver makes no sense. It makes perfect sense when you look at how efficient the speakers are, and do the math. The meter he is using is the same one recommended by the power company to check your electricity usage and is very accurate. If you doubt it measure the voltage on the output to see how much you are really using. I think you will be very surprised. Also, as I recall there is a function on the Killawatt to show amps. Big amps are made for outdoor use or with low efficiency speakers... Not for high efficiency speakers used in your home. Once you find out the amount of power you are using stick an Scope on their and see how much distortion your big amp is putting out for running at such a low power output. .. You will see that you are running your amp at the highest distortion since you are running your amp at a lower level than it is optimized for. Get an amp that puts out the amount of power you really need and you will have less distortion then running too big of an amp.. Edited March 4, 2015 by ellisr63 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 It makes perfect sense when you look at how efficient the speakers are, and do the math. The meter he is using is the same one recommended by the power company to check your electricity usage and is very accurate. If you doubt it measure the voltage on the output to see how much you are really using. I think you will be very surprised. I guess I'm mostly curious as to how it can measure less at ear piercing levels than HK says it draws when at idle, which is 120 watts. Maybe they're lazy and just estimated this, I don't know. Just seems like a high current amp that pulls 120 watts when doing nothing would pull more than 98 when you get it going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) It makes perfect sense when you look at how efficient the speakers are, and do the math. The meter he is using is the same one recommended by the power company to check your electricity usage and is very accurate. If you doubt it measure the voltage on the output to see how much you are really using. I think you will be very surprised. I guess I'm mostly curious as to how it can measure less at ear piercing levels than HK says it draws when at idle, which is 120 watts. Maybe they're lazy and just estimated this, I don't know. Just seems like a high current amp that pulls 120 watts when doing nothing would pull more than 98 when you get it going. I would have to assume that HK is not giving a accurate reading at idle (or that they are measuring idle as with one wpc going out, or maybe with the HDMI output hooked up and it is drawing power??), but no matter it does show how little power is actually required for listening at reference levels with LaScalas. The only way to know for sure would be to call them and ask. Try it for yourself and see... Your public library might have them for checking out (a lot of them are supplying them since electricity consumption is important now adays, and you only need it for a day to check out all your items in the house. I sent HK an email to see what they say about the discrepancy. Edited March 4, 2015 by ellisr63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) I guess I'm mostly curious as to how it can measure less at ear piercing levels than HK says it draws when at idle, which is 120 watts. The HK must be old or something is wrong with it. Even my big Yamaha M 80 in class A mode never drew more than 40 watts at Idel and that amp was made in the early 80's. That is why class A amps aren't made today. They use waste to much power. Power management is a good thing when setting up your HT or audio system. I think my Pioneer Elite avr with Class D ice amp uses 0.2 watts in standby and 0.3 watts with HDMI passthrough. Edited March 4, 2015 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Derrick, could I get a link to the meter you're using? Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Derrick, could I get a link to the meter you're using? Thanks. Have you checked with your local library to see if they check out meters for checking ac consumption? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Derrick, could I get a link to the meter you're using? Thanks. Have you checked with your local library to see if they check out meters for checking ac consumption? Me? No. Never crossed my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) The numbers are from what I seen in the manual: MiscellaneousPower requirements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .AC 120 V, 60 HzPower consumption . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .330 WIn standby . . . . . . . . 0.2 W (HDMI Setup – Control : OFF)0.3 W (HDMI Setup – Control : ON)Dimensions . . . . . .420 mm (W) x 200 mm (H) x 460 mm (D)(16 9/16 in. (W) x 7 7/8 in. (H) x 18 1/8 in. (D))Weight (without package). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18.5 kg (40.8 lb Right now TV on, avr on, internet modem, cable box off but connected, Yaquin amp on playing music, power console all on for a reading of 88 watts, 123 volt, and 0.9 amp on the power console, Not much more than a light bulb. Edited March 4, 2015 by derrickdj1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBPK402 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) My Denon 4520 draws 5.1 watts in network standby, but when I turn it on it goes to 1 amp draw at idle, and stays at that power consumption level even at reference level movie watching (now currently I am using external amps for the front 3 channels, but it is because I am bi-amping, and my results on AC consumption were from when I ran the LaScalas and used all the internal amps). The Denon draws more power at idle than my 3 Yamaha Pro amps, and 2 i3NUCs do at idle. I am told that the HDMI circuits are a killer on consumption, and heat. Edited March 4, 2015 by ellisr63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronH Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Really lets you know that an amp for most of us is just a waste. Sell the amps buy more subs. Lol No way Jose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldred Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Really lets you know that an amp for most of us is just a waste. Sell the amps buy more subs. Lol Not going to Happen!!! Edited March 5, 2015 by oldred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeskizzle Posted March 5, 2015 Author Share Posted March 5, 2015 If I get my hands on some solid extension cords, I'll hook up my Sherbourn 7X150 amp and report my findings. So far, my sound quality is outstanding IMO, but who knows - maybe the Sherbourn "outboard" will make a difference. Heck - at my current power usage rate, I could put it on the same breaker for shiggles. However, I'll admit this - I'm jaded to thinking that in my current room and setup, I don't need an external amp. For me, letting my HK3600 do the grunt work, I get more than enough punch and power to my La Scalas. Maybe if I moved to a much larger room then I would benefit from external amplification. I mean - I have 3 La Scalas sitting (at the max) 7.5 feet from me. Enjoying the discussion! I'm always eager to learn and hear from others! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Just wondering what yall see out there on how much you really need? About the same, ~5 watts, and almost entirely in the sub channel. ~100mV across the L,C, & R at wide-open throttle. The discussion between amps and "How much?" often falls short because what's really at play is often times not power delivery, but rather the transient behavior of each device. Almost no data, from any manufacturer, is ever provided in that regard. Even fewer people have the tools, knowledge, and time to investigate that, in particular case by case. There's a lot more to it than just raw, calculated power numbers. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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