2.2 System Question

[gadgtfreek]

I have been tinkering with my room and first posted this in the HT forum, but I think this may be a better place.

 

I get two channel is more music related, but going back to how good my 7ii's sound with music (very centered) and it sounds "worse" when I add the center, I was wondering if any of you guys watch your movies this way? And what your experience is.

 

 

[teaman]

I have an Emotiva XDA-2 Gen 2 I use as a preamp/DAC linked to a pair of Outlaw Audio M2200 mono blocks. I use the XLR outs to run the amps linked to my pair of Klipsch. I use the RCA outputs on the pre to link to a pair of powered subs and it sounds really, really good.

[twk123]

I use a phantom center for my system watching movies and like it. It depends on your setup, room size etc. Here are some rules I found in my research:

 

If you have a TV, a phantom center can center the voices on the screen rather than a speaker set above or below.

The further off axis you sit, the worse a phantom center can be effective to lock the voices to the screen.

If your center speaker cant keep up efficiency wise or is poorly matched, its better to run a phantom center.

[willland]

I get two channel is more music related, but going back to how good my 7ii's sound with music (very centered) and it sounds "worse" when I add the center

 

For movies, always RF-63>>>>RC-64<<<<RF63.  I think the RC-64 mates best with RF-63's and my front stage is pretty seamless.  For music I listen in "Enhanced Stereo"(all channels and subs) most of the time and stereo sometimes in my main rig.  Of course stereo or stereo/sub in my 2-channel systems.

 

Bill

[gadgtfreek]

Thanks for the input.

 

I am tinkering with ideas because

 

1) The CC is my room has some freq resp issues (dips) that the mains do not. Sits on a stand below the display and aims up at us

2) the 7ii's sound GREAT when I run them by themselves in pure direct music. I mean even in my slightly off center seat it sounds balanced. When I got from 2.2 to 3.2 music, it just doesnt sound good.

 

I get music is different, but I have to wonder if some HT doesnt apply.

[gadgtfreek]

 

I get two channel is more music related, but going back to how good my 7ii's sound with music (very centered) and it sounds "worse" when I add the center

 

For movies, always RF-63>>>>RC-64<<<<RF63.  I think the RC-64 mates best with RF-63's and my front stage is pretty seamless.  For music I listen in "Enhanced Stereo"(all channels and subs) most of the time and stereo sometimes in my main rig.  Of course stereo or stereo/sub in my 2-channel systems.

 

Bill

 

 

 

Thanks. I also have to try moving my mains back in. Now that I have some time on them, I think I spread them out too far and it is affecting things. It's gonna take a good bit of eval before I perfect it but I am trying everything. Problem is now using REW, it gives me more stuff to try and tweak LOL

[willland]

Problem is now using REW, it gives me more stuff to try and tweak LOL

 

Okay, I am just going to say it.

 

Would you just sit back and enjoy your rockin kick butt system and stop over thinking things?  

 

Seriously, your rig is awesome and you can tweak until there is no tomorrow, but you got to just put on the brakes and enjoy the spoils a little bit.

 

 

 

I also have to try moving my mains back in. Now that I have some time on them, I think I spread them out too far and it is affecting things.

 

As far as too far out, I had the same problem with movies.  My 63's were lined up right in the corners and toed in at about 45 degrees at about 14 feet apart.  Great for music, aweful for HT with a 59 inch TV .  When things panned to the right and left, the sounds were way off the screen.

 

Bill

Edited June 15, 2015 by willland

[gadgtfreek]

I know I know. it is fun though and I am trying to absorb it all in and tinker because, once that second sub is in place, i want to stop and leave it be... I do have a center channel issue to try and work out though and that is for this evening. Sub should be here Wed so the whole project is almost done. I have learned a lot about audio, speaker placement and more about dips and modes than I wanted to know.

 

Out of curiosoty, where did you end up putting your 63's apart? I am probably going for 7 feet or so on the 7ii's, maybe less. For HT some recommendations with main speaker placement it drops more from the eq triangle method to some saying something like 1.5 times the distance between mains should equal the distance from you to the center. So about 6.5 feet for my 9.5ft distance.

[willland]

Out of curiosoty, where did you end up putting your 63's apart?

 

They are now right at 9ft apart with my main seat at about 9ft.   My system has never sounded better for HT, stereo music, and multichannel music.  

 

For HT some recommendations with main speaker placement it drops more from the eq triangle method to some saying something like 1.5 times the distance between mains should equal the distance from you to the center.

 

 

My 64 is right at 10ft from my ears.

 

Bill

[Scrappydue]

For HT some recommendations with main speaker placement it drops more from the eq triangle method to some saying something like 1.5 times the distance between mains should equal the distance from you to the center. So about 6.5 feet for my 9.5ft distance.

 just can't see why you would want that unless you had to? my mains are about 6-7 feet apart upstairs and i sit 12-13 feet from. i have them that close because i have no other option. i have a friend close who has a 18x19 room and he sits about 12 feet back and his mains are about 15 feet apart. his room sounds fantastic. i really feel like his speakers have the room to breathe. 

[Zen Traveler]

I have been tinkering with my room and first posted this in the HT forum, but I think this may be a better place.

 

I get two channel is more music related, but going back to how good my 7ii's sound with music (very centered) and it sounds "worse" when I add the center, I was wondering if any of you guys watch your movies this way? And what your experience is.

 

Hmm...It depends which mode you are using for 2 channel and the source, but for 5.1+ movies I can't fathom that Phantom Center works better than having the RC-64II up front. Also, are you planning on getting any surrounds?

Edited June 16, 2015 by tkdamerica

[Zen Traveler]

 

Out of curiosoty, where did you end up putting your 63's apart?

 

They are now right at 9ft apart with my main seat at about 9ft.   My system has never sounded better for HT, stereo music, and multichannel music.  

 

 

 

For HT some recommendations with main speaker placement it drops more from the eq triangle method to some saying something like 1.5 times the distance between mains should equal the distance from you to the center.

 

 

My 64 is right at 10ft from my ears.

 

Bill

 

 

Fwiw, My speaker distance is almost the same as Willand's with similar results.

[mxr dad]

In my setup, 2 channel music sounds best in 2.1. I can even handle pure direct. But with any other scenario, any other speaker added to the mix just takes away from the sound. But, I also have to turn the sub way down so it sounds blended.

[gadgtfreek]

I pulled it all out and started from scratch tonight with REW sweeps. I found no matter what I did with the center, it had a lot of dips and peaks. The 7ii mains have a very good freq response from the get go, so much of my up and down FR after audyssey runs is probably due to the center. I also found my subs work much much better outside the mains. Their FR without any eq applied is freaking nice from 10hz to 120hz, so I can't wait to see the after XT32 result tomorrow. What this meant is the mains can only be so far apart from each other (about 8ft, down from the 10 feet they were). Their FR was nice at the MLP and the further they got away from the wall the happier they were, so I moved them out as far as possible. Toe in was also good and bad depending on the part of the chart you looked at. It was a very informative experience and it may lead me to try and see what kind of results I can get with and without the center.

 

Scrappy, I see the good and the bad in it, or hear it. When they were 10.5 feet or so apart, dealing with a 65" display (about 56" wide IIRC) the problem is some things sound like they happen across the room when they in fact were at the corner of the screen. I get both sides to the argument.

[Scrappydue]

Scrappy, I see the good and the bad in it, or hear it. When they were 10.5 feet or so apart, dealing with a 65" display (about 56" wide IIRC) the problem is some things sound like they happen across the room when they in fact were at the corner of the screen. I get both sides to the argument.

 true guess i didnt think about it like that. i have a 50". mu buddy has a 158" and they flank each side of that. so anchored to screen perfectly 

[fuzzydog]

I think it's just a matter of music being mixed in stereo while most video sources are mixed in Dolby digital 5.1 which has a dedicated center channel. If you're forcing music to be played in 3.2, the center channel is matrixed and won't sound as good as what is coming from your fronts.

Regards,

FD

[derrickdj1]

For music, 2.2 is fine in the entertaiment room.  Sometimes I use the two front sub and sometimes I use the 2 rear sub and they sound 98% the same, lol.  I watch TV in the same room and usually take whatever the avr defaults to format wise.  Some of the internet shows are in stereo and that sound OK and sometimes better than with a matrix center channel.

 

I am like others, I use to be critical and now I just enjoy.  If something does not sound right occassionaly, I blame the cable company or who made the movie, lol.

[willland]

I think it's just a matter of music being mixed in stereo while most video sources are mixed in Dolby digital 5.1 which has a dedicated center channel. If you're forcing music to be played in 3.2, the center channel is matrixed and won't sound as good as what is coming from your fronts.

Regards,

FD

 

I would totally agree with you under most circumstances but for some reason with my NAD pre/pro using it's "Enhanced Stereo" mode with Audyssey's "NAD" house curve, the imaging, soundstage, etc. is spot on and in fact as good or better than just stereo.  As much as I like my Onkyo 705, it just does not matrix 2-channel sources to multichannel anywhere close to what the NAD does.

 

Bill

Edited June 16, 2015 by willland

[Marvel]

When I had my LaScalas, and still with my Heresy IIs, I would sometimes think I had the tv speakers turned up. The center imaging was superb. I don't have a center or subs. My speakers are about two feet outside the width of my tv (55inch).

 

For me, less is more and I just enjoy it and don't obsess/worry about it.

 

Bruce

[gadgtfreek]

 

Scrappy, I see the good and the bad in it, or hear it. When they were 10.5 feet or so apart, dealing with a 65" display (about 56" wide IIRC) the problem is some things sound like they happen across the room when they in fact were at the corner of the screen. I get both sides to the argument.

 true guess i didnt think about it like that. i have a 50". mu buddy has a 158" and they flank each side of that. so anchored to screen perfectly 

 

I think that is it. I mean these 7ii's can go wide especially with the 64ii in the middle, but if you get 4 feet off the edge of the screen on both sides the effect is "weird".