Khorn Bass Bin Vs. Jubilee Bass Bin ?

[Cut-Throat]

I am currently running a pair of Oris Horns with my Khorn Bass Bins... This is a 'killer system' but as an audiophle. I was wondering if the Jubilee Bass Bins would be an improvement over the Khorn Bass Bins?

 

If so, what are the Specs of the Jubilee Bass Bin ?

 

1.) What are their Physical dimensions ?

 

2.) What is their efficiency rating?

 

3.) What is the freq range and recommenced crossover point?

 

4.) What Driver/s do they use?

 

5) Can you buy just the Bass Bins? How much are they ?

[Axz Hout]

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[Chris A]

1.) What are their Physical dimensions?

2.) What is their efficiency rating?

3.) What is the freq range and recommenced crossover point?

4.) What Driver/s do they use?

5) Can you buy just the Bass Bins? How much are they?

 

1) 41.5" W x 39.75" H x 24.5 D

2) They are about 1 to 2 dB more efficient than a Khorn bass bin, according to Roy (first hand info)

3) On axis - they can go up to about 1200 Hz and down to 31 Hz (-3 dB), but the horizontal and vertical polars suggest that you need to crossover below 450 Hz  (...the polars are much better than Khorns, if you're wondering)

4) They use K-31 drivers - two 12" woofers in each bass bin

5) Contact American Cinema Equipment (Cinequip) in Oregon.  Ask for Spencer Chao (spencer.chao  AT  cinequip.com).  Say you need a quote on two KPT-KHJ-LF bass bins.

 

Chris

Edited September 11, 2015 by Chris A

[Cut-Throat]

Chris - Thanks much for the Info !!

[Chris A]

what are the Specs of the Jubilee Bass Bin ?

 

On-axis frequency response, red is the Jub bass bin, black is Khorn - anechoic, not in the chamber's hard corner but rather without boundary support, normalized to approx. the same output level for this plot.

 

 

Input Impedance:

Edited September 11, 2015 by Chris A

[Coytee]

I was wondering if the Jubilee Bass Bins would be an improvement over the Khorn Bass Bins?

 

Yes.

 

I put it this way once.

 

PWK had maybe ....."zero" years of experience when he designed the Khorn?  For kicks, let's give him five years of experience designing a bass horn (though if it was his first, the years would have to be zero, no?)

 

When the Jubilee bin was designed, he had 50 years of experience (yes, and Roy).

 

My contention is he probably learned a trick or two over those 50 years.  Today's Jubilee bass bin has that 50 years of experience built into it whereas, the Khorn really has near zero years (since it's been relatively unchanged over the years from his original design)

[WMcD]

When reading Coytee's response my initial reaction was that the difference between a K-Horn and Jubilee was not PWK learning more.  Rather, it was a matter of price of one woofer versus two back in 1943 or so.  My thought was that one driver was a very big part of the cost of bass bin and two would have been very cost prohibitive.  Therefore, a dual woofer design, like the Jubilee was just not an option.

 

Looking at Allied Radio catalogs from the WWII era, I don't see data about what we'd consider a really good woofer.  The prices and value on what is there are difficult for me to interpret. There are some 12 inch and 15 inch.  And some with field windings.  My guess is that the inexpensive ones there did not have the parameters that PWK was reading about in the Bell Labs papers -- assuming he could get such information on the units.

 

The more interesting and reliable info (or related to the history we know) is from the Allied catalog from 1955, attached.  Here we see what I suspected.  The 15WK cost about $76.00 net or $130 list, price.  But let me say that is about $100.  Today, we can get an equivalent unit from Crites or Klipsch for those dollars.  This shows me that woofers today, adjusting for consumer price index, etc. are very cheap. 

 

Still, we look at the catalog and see that if PWK got up one morning in 1955 and designed the Jubilee with two 12 inchers instead of one 15 incher, would it have broken the bank?  It seems not.  If you investigate that website and look at prices of all components, bumping up the cost of bass drivers is not that much. 

 

But my thought is why PWK didn't put effort into making the Jubilee in 1955, rather than a more learned PWK doing it in 2000. Was he later more learned?  My observation is that in 1955 he was king of the hill in bass and riding high on his patent.  And he had other fish to fry on the mid and tweeter.  By 1995 he had time to get back to some early thoughts.

 

So, overall, I think that Coytee has part of the story, but there is more to it.

 

BTW, anyone interested in early Klipsch should look at the catalog for offering by EV there.

 

WMcD

1955 from Allied Catalogs dot com re WK Woofers.pdf

Edited September 12, 2015 by William F. Gil McDermott

[garyrc]

The prices are about right for the era.  JBL D130 or D130A 15" were $84 in 1959.  Man, are such speakers cheap today!  Inflation would predict that the equivalent would be over $1,000 today, but they aren't nearly that.

Edited September 12, 2015 by garyrc

[juniper]

Cut Throat your system is awesome, so smooth... If the Jub bins take it to the next level it would be insane!!!

[ClaudeJ1]

The prices are about right for the era.  JBL D130 or D130A 15" were $84 in 1959.  Man, are such speakers cheap today!  Inflation would predict that the equivalent would be over $1,000 today, but they aren't nearly that.

If you look at the comment about the "K" versions being lower impedance (because of horn loading) vs. the rest, which are 16 ohms, is a reminder that all amplifiers at that time were TUBES, which prefer a higher Z.

[Cut-Throat]

Cut Throat your system is awesome, so smooth... If the Jub bins take it to the next level it would be insane!!!

Thanks Pat ! .....  I  ....... The physical size of the Jubilee's would be bigger than the Khorns, which do tuck neatly into the corner..... Also my Khorn Bass bins are finished in a Nice Oak. It looks to me like the only Option with the Jubilee is an "industrial Black",  which is not cool with the WAF.     We should get together this fall.... I was planning earlier, but time flies !

[Chris A]

It looks to me like the only Option with the Jubilee is an "industrial Black", which is not cool with the WAF.

 

You can get a front panel veneer, IIRC. Perhaps if you talk to Spencer, he'll know about that option.

 

Chris

Edited September 13, 2015 by Chris A

[Islander]

 

Cut Throat your system is awesome, so smooth... If the Jub bins take it to the next level it would be insane!!!

Thanks Pat ! .....  I  ....... The physical size of the Jubilee's would be bigger than the Khorns, which do tuck neatly into the corner..... Also my Khorn Bass bins are finished in a Nice Oak. It looks to me like the only Option with the Jubilee is an "industrial Black",  which is not cool with the WAF.     We should get together this fall.... I was planning earlier, but time flies !

 

 

The Jubilees can be ordered with a decorative wood insert on the front of the bass bin between the horn openings, which dresses them up quite a bit.  As well, some Jubilee owners have had boxes or other types of enclosures made up to cover the big 402 treble horn.

 

Here's a pair of Jubilees with zebrawood insert and trim around the 402s.  You can see their guard dog in the foreground.

[Cut-Throat]

The Jubilees can be ordered with a decorative wood insert on the front of the bass bin between the horn openings, which dresses them up quite a bit. As well, some Jubilee owners have had boxes or other types of enclosures made up to cover the big 402 treble horn. Here's a pair of Jubilees with zebrawood insert and trim around the 402s. You can see their guard dog in the foreground.

 

 

OK, thanks for the info on the insert on the Bass Bin.  I don't need to worry about the Mid Range Horn, as the Oris Horns are keepers for me.