Jim Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I just got the Crites crossovers for the Forte II. Installed them, and poof, my sound stage I had is gone. What did I do wrong? Double checked and the woofer is correct,the tweeter is correct, and I think the mid is correct. It doesn't have a + or - on it, but I thought the yellow is positive, and from the rear it's on the left, so that's what I did. They actually sound better with the old crossovers in them,although the tweeters are a lot more brighter with the new crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I just got the Crites crossovers for the Forte II. Installed them, and poof, my sound stage I had is gone. What did I do wrong? Double checked and the woofer is correct,the tweeter is correct, and I think the mid is correct. It doesn't have a + or - on it, but I thought the yellow is positive, and from the rear it's on the left, so that's what I did. They actually sound better with the old crossovers in them,although the tweeters are a lot more brighter with the new crossovers. Now that's a first. Never heard that one before. Most describe the soundstage deepening and widening after crossover mod. I hope you just hooked up something wrong or you need a little time to get used to the new sound. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Off-hand, your midrange may be out of phase with one or both of your other drivers on each side. Since you are least certain about it, I suggest you reverse the leads on at least one of your MR drivers and see if that clears it up. My other suggestion is to make sure both X-overs are well broken in. X-overs may take 50 or 100 hours playing music (not just white noise) to sound good and develop a full sound stage. Please let us know if they sound different after 50-100 hours of music. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 real quick, the midrange has a white spot like white out on each speaker terminal on one side. Is that the positive or negative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 Off-hand, your midrange may be out of phase with one or both of your other drivers on each side. Since you are least certain about it, I suggest you reverse the leads on at least one of your MR drivers and see if that clears it up. My other suggestion is to make sure both X-overs are well broken in. X-overs may take 50 or 100 hours playing music (not just white noise) to sound good and develop a full sound stage. Please let us know if they sound different after 50-100 hours of music. Good luck. Will try that Larry. Didn't realize they had to break in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 What you are describing is normally a phase issue, not break in....................sorry cant help with the white dot 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 I switched the wires, but it gets lower on the sound when I do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 capacitors do require time to "form" or burn in some a lot longer than others but weeks worth of time is not unusual the more time you play them the sooner you will be done. while you are burning the new parts in why not experiment with your toe in adjustment and see if you can find your missing stage and image. This will only cost you a small amount of your time and critical listening is always a valuable and worthwhile exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Jim heres a video to test the speakers polarity but this wont work on the compression drivers (mids / highs) Make sure the polarity of the bass is right and move up 1 driver at a time checking the leads each way, also double check polarity at the amp, You would be surprised how easy it is to get that wrong ask me how I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Moray, been doing that with toeing in. They were set up in the perfect spot when I brought them into the house this past Sunday. Literally just did the crossovers at about 6:30 ET. I did not know there is a break in time for crossovers. I will wait it out then. I usually listen a good 4-6 hours a day after work while invoicing for the days work. Moray, I did want to ask you a question on how you insulate the horns and what you use. Does it make a big difference on the Forte II to do it? And do you do both horns? What would the big benefit be doing them? Thanks, Jim Edited September 18, 2015 by Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 Jim heres a video to test the speakers polarity but this wont work on the compression drivers (mids / highs) Make sure the polarity of the bass is right and move up 1 driver at a time checking the leads each way, also double check polarity at the amp, You would be surprised how easy it is to get that wrong ask me how I know Joe I double checked the polarity, and it seems to be correct. I switched the wires on the mids,and they sound got worse. So I switched them back. The wiring seems to be correct as long as the mids negative is where the white dot is for the connection. I guess I will have to wait for the break in period. I noticed the tweeters are a lot brighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Did you re run room correction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted September 18, 2015 Author Share Posted September 18, 2015 they are hooked up to tubes Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Oops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I switched the wires on the mids,and they sound got worse. So I switched them back. That's how I do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I did not know there is a break in time for crossovers. I will wait it out then. I usually listen a good 4-6 hours a day after work while invoicing for the days work. I guess I have kinda far out views, but I believe that just about everything breaks in -- any electrical component, power cords, interconnects, speaker wire, you name it. Heck, even just moving any of those kinds of wire around, like coiling and uncoiling, will cause temporary tinny sound until they are played for a while and seem to settle back in. Seriously ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Moray, been doing that with toeing in. They were set up in the perfect spot when I brought them into the house this past Sunday. Literally just did the crossovers at about 6:30 ET. I did not know there is a break in time for crossovers. I will wait it out then. I usually listen a good 4-6 hours a day after work while invoicing for the days work. Moray, I did want to ask you a question on how you insulate the horns and what you use. Does it make a big difference on the Forte II to do it? And do you do both horns? What would the big benefit be doing them? Thanks, Jim The mid horns in your Forte ll are very well built horns with thick solid walls damping them with dynamat won't make much difference but you cah place a layer of dynamat or similar product on the tweeter lens and on the back plate of all the motor structures. The other place dynamat will serve you very well in on the inside and outside of stamped steel basket struts. Damping this way will eat up a lot of mechanical structural resonances the result is a cleaner sound with a lower noise floor which results in increased dynamics and greater retrieval of low level detail. This is the same thing that happens in a car fitted with dynamat and that is exactly why it is used in that and many other noise abatement situations. Hope that helps enjoy your Forte ll they are a fine loudspeaker. There are numerous other places to use dynamat in your loudspeaker but start with these and you will see for yourself what the benefits actually are first hand. Best regards Moray James. New capacitors can impact the phase response and possibly enough to shift your image. Worth your time to experiment. Same applies when you change a component you can experience differences in phase. Never assume things will remain static in you system when you make such changes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Another thing that can cause this type of problem on crossovers is that the components don't match. If they were not tested before they were put in (all have variance, caps and resistors many times the most) which can cause shifting. Also when soldering, or just plain failing once installed and testing. It would be interesting if you had something like a Parts Express woofer tester to hook resistors, instead of drivers up on the network and see if they measure the same. Not 100% because the tester isn't putting out quite the same power as an amp but may show something. Phasing issues are due to mismatches between the right and left responses and also due to phase mismatches in each single speaker. You might want to try switching both mids + and - or tweeters, not just one. The stage may be presented mostly where there is a notch in the response. Not as much so on the later. The closer the two speakers match, the better the central image will be when playing a mono audio stream. Many expensive manufacturers pre-break in drivers and components, measure them, then match them up to try and insure significant increases in imaging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Moray, been doing that with toeing in. They were set up in the perfect spot when I brought them into the house this past Sunday. Literally just did the crossovers at about 6:30 ET. I did not know there is a break in time for crossovers. I will wait it out then. I usually listen a good 4-6 hours a day after work while invoicing for the days work. Moray, I did want to ask you a question on how you insulate the horns and what you use. Does it make a big difference on the Forte II to do it? And do you do both horns? What would the big benefit be doing them? Thanks, Jim The mid horns in your Forte ll are very well built horns with thick solid walls damping them with dynamat won't make much difference but you cah place a layer of dynamat or similar product on the tweeter lens and on the back plate of all the motor structures. The other place dynamat will serve you very well in on the inside and outside of stamped steel basket struts. Damping this way will eat up a lot of mechanical structural resonances the result is a cleaner sound with a lower noise floor which results in increased dynamics and greater retrieval of low level detail. This is the same thing that happens in a car fitted with dynamat and that is exactly why it is used in that and many other noise abatement situations. Hope that helps enjoy your Forte ll they are a fine loudspeaker. There are numerous other places to use dynamat in your loudspeaker but start with these and you will see for yourself what the benefits actually are first hand. Best regards Moray James. New capacitors can impact the phase response and possibly enough to shift your image. Worth your time to experiment. Same applies when you change a component you can experience differences in phase. Never assume things will remain static in you system when you make such changes. I never heard this one before thanks for posting it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 I don't know what Bob's forte crossovers are exact to Klipsch circuit or not. But caps change phasing and if not the same could present a slight or significant phase change in a driver. Did you try putting one of the old crossovers back in and set system to mono and go back and forth with the balance to see what the difference between the two crossovers sound like? When I install a speaker change I always do just one at first and make this test to understand what I'm going to be hearing from that change. Just an idea for you to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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