bobdit Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Works for me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Okay i get it... but there is another way to look at it(from a noob like me) that wouldn't it be better to have the "bigger" speakers handle that 60% with more authority? because if that much signal gets taken away then why not simply use cheaper mains with the best center? That is a good question. The center channel works in conjunction with the mains(and surrounds, subwoofer) but being in the center, it ties that impact to the screen. The mains handle the majority of the films musical score which in my opinion, is a very important aspect of the HT experience. Hence, quality front and right main speakers are crucial to the experience. Bill if we take the sub out of the equation and there is an explosion in a movie... how much of that bass will be channeled to the mains and how much through the center... this answer might tell me exactly what i am trying to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 if we take the sub out of the equation and there is an explosion in a movie... how much of that bass will be channeled to the mains and how much through the center... this answer might tell me exactly what i am trying to know. That is a tough question to answer without doing multiple demos with different movie soundtracks. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 You basically just said it's super important so you might want to try not having one. WOW, how about that, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Okay i get it... but there is another way to look at it(from a noob like me) that wouldn't it be better to have the "bigger" speakers handle that 60% with more authority? because if that much signal gets taken away then why not simply use cheaper mains with the best center? That is a good question. The center channel works in conjunction with the mains(and surrounds, subwoofer) but being in the center, it ties that impact to the screen. The mains handle the majority of the films musical score which in my opinion, is a very important aspect of the HT experience. Hence, quality front and right main speakers are crucial to the experience. Bill if we take the sub out of the equation and there is an explosion in a movie... how much of that bass will be channeled to the mains and how much through the center... this answer might tell me exactly what i am trying to know. A lot depends on the movie soundtrack, and how low the frequency of the explosion was, but I think the mains would receive the majority of the bass, less to the center. The center is used more for dialogue and connecting the sound between the towers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) A lot depends on the movie soundtrack, and how low the frequency of the explosion was, but I think the mains would receive the majority of the bass, less to the center. The center is used more for dialogue and connecting the sound between the towers. It probably depends on which receiver you get. With a Marantz preamp you can choose to reroute the LFE material to the mains but I'm not sure it does that with receivers and you don't really have a choice on the matter even if it does. Anybody who thinks the center doesn't get much juice and is otherwise weak sauce except for dialogue ought to watch the Metallica "through the never" movie, most of the kick drums come through the center channel. And... there's ALOT of kick drums. You better have a nice beefy center if you want this movie to sound good. Bass guitar too, lots of bass comes through the center. Edited October 19, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapsnb01 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 It comes down to the seamlessness of your front soundstage. Your center is the middle part of that stage. Without it, you can pretty well isolate which of your fronts is handling certain sounds. With a good center, the stage opens up and it is incredibly difficult, if not impossible in most instances, to isolate which speaker is playing what sound. I went phantom center for about 2 years and was generally happy with my experience watching movies, but I got pretty good at hearing which of my mains was handling certain sounds in a movie. When I added my center, it completely changed that. Everything opened up and the stage became seamless. Sounds that pan from one side to the other actually sound smooth and natural. From my experience, I'd highly recommend a matching center, and I'd never build a system without one. There are places to save money...center channel isn't one of them. Your experience may vary though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm not fond of phantom centers. IMO, a dedicated center provides a better soundstage than a phantom center. I have also heard firsthand the difference having three identical speakers makes. It's not necessary but it makes a 100% seamless transition between speakers. I've heard 3 RF-7ii in Wakejunkie's HT and I have LaScala Trio in my HT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Anybody who thinks the center doesn't get much juice and is otherwise weak sauce except for dialogue ought to watch the Metallica "through the never" movie, most of the kick drums come through the center channel. And... there's ALOT of kick drums. You better have a nice beefy center if you want this movie to sound good. Bass guitar too, lots of bass comes through the center. I have not heard/seen that movie/concert but definitely agree with that the center is not mostly just for dialog. Pop in the BD "Flight of the Phoenix" and sit back and experience how much content comes from the center channel. Oh, and as most of you already know, the sandstorm/crash scene is a legendary LFE demo clip. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) I'm not fond of phantom centers. IMO, a dedicated center provides a better soundstage than a phantom center. I have also heard firsthand the difference having three identical speakers makes. It's not necessary but it makes a 100% seamless transition between speakers. I've heard 3 RF-7ii in Wakejunkie's HT and I have LaScala Trio in my HT. I'm not a fan of horizontal RF-7ii's like he has, mainly because I built one and know what it's like. There's some significant lobing going on, those cones are too big and crossed over too high to get away from that. This is why the RC-64ii has different crossover frequencies. You should hear it when these things are vertical. THAT's seamless. Sit anywhere, it sounds the same. This is impossible with a speaker like he built. Regardless, part of the seamless imaging comes from correctly setting the distances in the receiver. Audessey can be significantly off. Actually measuring to the speaker's center with a laser is way better than Audessey but most people don't do that. After this was done on mine I was shocked at how seamless it was even with a traditional horizontal center. The entire front stage was like one big speaker. Edited October 19, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm not a fan of horizontal RF-7ii's like he has, mainly because I built one and know what it's like. Maybe not all DIY centers are the same? There's some significant lobing going on, those cones are too big and crossed over too high to get away from that. This is why the RC-64ii has different crossover frequencies. You should hear it when these things are vertical. THAT's seamless. Sit anywhere, it sounds the same. This is impossible with a speaker like he built. I'm not sure about lobing, all I know is his custom RF-7ii center sounds amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 If there is no subwoofer, all full range speakers will get the LFE. How much of that impact you receive depends on what the mains and other speakers are capable of. Most center speaker don't go real low, like surrounds. Check where the speakers passive XO points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I'm not fond of phantom centers. IMO, a dedicated center provides a better soundstage than a phantom center. I have also heard firsthand the difference having three identical speakers makes. It's not necessary but it makes a 100% seamless transition between speakers. I've heard 3 RF-7ii in Wakejunkie's HT and I have LaScala Trio in my HT. his are not identical. At least not from what i remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Everyone is trying as nicely as they can to tell you a center is important. I'll just tell you flat out. Why would you wanna spend thousands on an amp that everyone is telling you you DONT NEED and not spend a thousand or less on something everyone is tell you YOU DO NEED!?!? Upgrade-itis? Then skip the RF-7ii and either buy palladiums if you need traditional towers or buy cinema speakers if you can get away with it. Ten times better speakers than ANY reference speakers. And there will be zero upgrade-itis as that is as good of speakers as Klipsch makes. Trust me I am maybe the ONLY person on this forum that has owned them all! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2015 his are not identical. At least not from what i remember. True...Wakejunkie's are not "identical" in the fact that the center is RF-7ii components in a custom horizontal cabinet with the tweeter in between the two woofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Horizontal=not as good when it's a mtm setup. Identical is king and you KNOW THIS NOW youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2015 Horizontal=not as good when it's a mtm setup What is mtm? Identical is king and you KNOW THIS NOW youth. I agree....I'm just don't think you would be able to hear the difference between Wake's DIY RF-7ii center and a RF-7ii. I can't prove that though. Haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Bet you could if a perfectly level playing field was setup behind an AT screen and you could flick a switch back and forth to hear the custom horizontal MTM (mid-tweeter-mid) vs a third rf-7ii tower. Bet you could easily pick it out then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2015 Might be able to hear a difference, I'm just saying it sounds amazing the way it is now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Maybe not all DIY centers are the same? I'm not sure about lobing, all I know is his custom RF-7ii center sounds amazing. He built a horizontal RF-7ii clone with factory woofers, factory tweeter, factory horn, factory crossover, factory sized enclosure, and factory sized ports. Yeah it's pretty danged similar, not a lot of leeway there. Trust me, there's lobing going on. Do the math, there's calculators you can use online. Big 10" drivers crossed over relatively high spread apart by a horn of this size equals lobing. Doesn't really matter what little details he may or may not have done to make it a bit different than mine. It still sounds great, at least when you're sitting in front of it. When you move around the room the sound changes significantly. Edited October 19, 2015 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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