Larger Cabinet for Heresy

[Turbox]

I couldnt remember it off hand but as i suggested, the tangent 400 is the box you want. its a decent design, it definately has more bass. i have owned both heresy, and the tangent 400. if you have the parts copy that box. it works well. sometimes its about the adventure. i get it.

[JohnA]

I pulled the components and all appear unharmed.  The water damage to the cabinets was due to sitting in three inches of water for a day.  I suppose once dried they wouldn't have been functionally worse for wear, but since they were already in pretty shoddy condition anyway I figured why not take this opportunity to build brand new cabinets and possibly make some improvements.

 

I found these Thiele/Small parameters for the K22E:

 

Fs=33hz

Qms=4.61

Vas=6.02 cu ft

X-max=3.91mm

Sd=86 sq in

Qts=.351

No=1.55%

SPL=94.8dB/2.83V/1M

Qes=.38

Re=6.8

Le=1mH (not sure of this)

Z=8 ohms

Bl=15

Pe=100W

 

I have BassBox Lite and like it.  I'll run it with these parameters and see what happens. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by John Albright

[JohnA]

This is about the best I could get it to do to go deeper.  Just about every other combination came back to the original cablnet dimensions, give or take a little.  Warning, the port is small and long, and the front dimension is not wide enough to mount the woofer, so you will have to adjust the other dimensions to get the front wide enough.  The response curve is a compromise.  the box tuning pushes the woofer over xmax at very low frequencies.  Best to use a low filter to kill what you can below 25 Hz. 

K-22-E boxes.pdf

[tagger]

According you your numbers making the box larger is not going to do much, add 10% of volume to the factory cabinet volume if you like but don't expect miracles.

 

Repairing the old cabinets would be much less work in my opinion.

 

Sadly I'm beginning to believe this is the solution.  My hopes were that increasing the size of the box and staying with a sealed cabinet would dig a bit deeper while staying true to the intentions of the original design.  But this does not appear to be the case.  Going with a ported box is another solution, as long as I high-pass the very deep frequencies.  However, since this is part of a 5.2 setup with subwoofers picking up where the Heresies wimp out, I have less motivation to deviate from a sealed box to attain deeper bass.  I think I will likely do some rehab on the old cabinets.  If I do end up designing a new box I'll post some photos here.  Thank you all for your advice!

[djk]

"I have BassBox Lite and like it.  I'll run it with these parameters and see what happens."

 

The numbers I gave were using BassBox v5.183

[Edroom]

I have a set of drivers from a Heresy and was looking today for specs to build a new cabinet, was thinking on making my own decorators, veneering the front and sides.  reading this has given me a thought....I think I will take the total volume of the box and create a bass enclosure on the bottom, but then extend the box to ear level height to mount the mid and tweeter horns...make a "Heresy Tower".  I dont believe the box behind a horn makes any difference in size, as often the horns are mounted externally. 

Any thoughts?

Ed

[jason str]

Leave the cabinets alone and build some matching subwoofers to use for risers.

Edited December 24, 2015 by jason str

[Olorin]

Box volume: 3.5 ft^3

Ports: Two 3" diameter x 5 5/8" long

F3: 37 Hz

 

With 50 watts:

 

Port air velocity: 16 ft/s

Xmax at ~54 Hz

110 db at 100 Hz, 106 at 40

 

A 2nd order Butterworth highpass at 35 Hz keeps things safe below tune.  The box is 20% larger than djk's but is otherwise probably about the same thing.

[efzauner]

This is about the best I could get it to do to go deeper.  Just about every other combination came back to the original cablnet dimensions, give or take a little.  Warning, the port is small and long, and the front dimension is not wide enough to mount the woofer, so you will have to adjust the other dimensions to get the front wide enough.  The response curve is a compromise.  the box tuning pushes the woofer over xmax at very low frequencies.  Best to use a low filter to kill what you can below 25 Hz. 

something fishy here.... the box volume Vb is 16.89 liters.. that is less than a cubic foot.. you sure you didn't enter a typo? Look at the Vas of the K22... you entered 6 liters instead of 6 cubic feet....  have another beer!  :-)    

 

I tried this with Win ISD a while back and just could not get the K22 to do too much.  It is puzzling what the Tangent 400 does. 

I have a pair in the basement... I suspect it is not an optimum driver/box/port combo.

Edited February 7, 2016 by efzauner

[moray james]

here is a reflex cabinet design for this woofer.

[mustang guy]

Here is a thread with some TS specs: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/149779-klipsch-heritage-woofer-ts-spec-v17/?hl=thiele. I intend on adding the new K-22E specs I saw here.

 

One thing I notice when building these LF capable ported bins with the K22 is that the max excursion is reached at far lower wattage. Moray, your box will reach max excursion at about 50Hz at 32.5 watts compared to the sealed box limit of about 45 watts. Moray, your box is -3db at 42Hz compared to a Heresy which specs at -3db at 65Hz.  It's a huge improvement on the bottom end, but it does mean the new speaker will have less overall watt handling of about 25 watts. 

[moray james]

mustang guy: I never built this cabinet I simply passed along the design. The additional information is useful to those considering the build thanks for posting. I expect that twenty five watts should play louder than you or I would want so it probably is not much of a concern at the end of the day.

[JohnA]

something fishy here.... the box volume Vb is 16.89 liters.. that is less than a cubic foot.. you sure you didn't enter a typo? Look at the Vas of the K22... you entered 6 liters instead of 6 cubic feet....  have another beer!  :-)    

 

 

I tried this with Win ISD a while back and just could not get the K22 to do too much.  It is puzzling what the Tangent 400 does. 

I have a pair in the basement... I suspect it is not an optimum driver/box/port combo.

 

 

Perhaps I did enter the wrong data.  I'll check later. 

[mustang guy]

The K22K specs out a bit better than the Eminence one, but porting and increasing enclosure volume does indeed dig 20-25Hz lower than the Heresy sealed box. Like I was saying, however, you will lose about 25watts for the speaker, which means you will be down about 1.5db at max loudness before you reach excursion. When you think of it, that is really nothing...

Edited February 9, 2016 by mustang guy

[wvu80]

Going with a ported box is another solution, as long as I high-pass the very deep frequencies.

 

However, since this is part of a 5.2 setup with subwoofers picking up where the Heresies wimp out, I have less motivation to deviate from a sealed box to attain deeper bass.

 

I was thinking the same thing for a 5.x setup.  If you are running subs, why try to make the Heresy more muscular in the lower range?  Let them articulate in the mid and upper frequencies and let the subs do the heavy lifting in the low end.

[moray james]

some folks call them Forte.

[ClaudeJ1]

I was thinking the same thing for a 5.x setup.  If you are running subs, why try to make the Heresy more muscular in the lower range?  Let them articulate in the mid and upper frequencies and let the subs do the heavy lifting in the low end.

 

Which is EXACTLY why I designed the Super Heresy/Baby Cornwall PORTED mod on the standard Heresy Cabinet. The MIDRANGE is where we live, but it does require a K-42 woofer or Eminence equivalent. Look for Heretical Heresy mod. You can keep the K77 (I didn't).

 

or just ask Jim Jimbo what he thinks, since he bought my original pair. I still have 3 doing surround duty.