edriz Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I have had my Lascalas since 1981 and love them. A little history. In 2008 I added ported risers to them after that in 2010 I added Crites A/4500 Crossovers and his CT-125 tweeters. In 2013 I added Atlas PD-5-VH Mid Drivers. Now Im "considering" adding Crites Cast Frame woofers. Here is my question, which may have been asked before and Im sorry if it has. Are there any other forum members that have installed Bob's Cast Frame woofers in their Lascalas? If so, what were your results? Did you hear any difference? Were there any significant benefits? I would consider adding the cast frame woofers if there are some benefits audibly. My current woofers are the Klipsch woofers that came with the Lascalas and they are fine so if there is no justification for a swap, I wont do it. Im fine with spending the money if the cast frame are an upgrade, know what I mean? Id sure appreciate any info, assistance you guys could offer. Thanks Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 If you have owned LaScalas since 1981, you should be elevated from newbie to something more. I haven't tried ports or cast woofers. I just wanted to comment that 35 years of Klipsch Heritage experience means you aint no newbie... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Now Im "considering" adding Crites Cast Frame woofers. Here is my question, which may have been asked before and Im sorry if it has. Are there any other forum members that have installed Bob's Cast Frame woofers in their Lascalas? If so, what were your results? Did you hear any difference? Were there any significant benefits? Ed You may find the quote below helpful. Since the cast frame CW1526 does not appear to be a "drop-in" replacement without modification to the doghouse. Islander, According to Bob's website, the cast frame CW1526 will not fit in the La Scala; the stamped frame will. Since the Fc of the La Scala is higher than that of the Klipschorn, I don't know if there would be much usable output in those nether regions. I've not explored the spectrum below the nominal Fc of the Klipschorn before, but plan to do some extensive distortion vs. output testing in the 20-40 Hz range. As for the audible difference between stock and replacement woofers; I'd want to restore one of the Klipschorn bass bins woofers and do some measurement/listening tests. Lee The CW1526 will not just slip into place, but can be made to fit, either by grinding away some material on opposite sides of the frame, or by cutting reliefs in the inside edges of the La Scala doghouse. That sounds extreme, but a few forum members have done those things and posted pictures of them. However, as you mention, the horn itself would likely be the limiting factor. People that have installed the cast frame woofers like the sound, but nobody has said it changes the La Scala into a bass monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edriz Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Im aware the cast frame wont drop in. All I want to know is if there is a benefit to the cast frame? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Im aware the cast frame wont drop in. All I want to know is if there is a benefit to the cast frame? Thanks If you are not driving them hard at continuous, very high SPL like a heavy metal concert, either cast aluminum frames or stamped steel frames should be fine for home use. In general, I believe that the primary advantage of cast aluminum frames is that they are often stiffer than steel stamped, which is beneficial with magnet weights of 60 ounces or more. The cast aluminum frames can also be machined to tighter tolerances than stamped steel frames, which tends to allow for tighter magnetic flux patterns. The cast aluminum frames will also act as heat sinks, which can be fairly important when using neodymium magnets, as a neodymium magnet can lose its magnetic properties when overheated. From a sound quality perspective, opinions are all over the board on that one as the two quotes below will attest. With the Crites cast woofers I found slightly tighter and extended bass to my ears. Upper bass seemed a little clear well. Again, while I was swapping them out I also worked on sealing up and bracing the cabinets better so I'm sure had an effect too. From what I have heard from others is that improvement is small unless your old woofers had a problem. I had bought mine because I was going to be building new cabinets. Eventually, I still plan on building some cabinets and I will put the old K33's back. When that time comes I can let folks know how they differ. IMHO the original Crites stamped woofer has a smoother sound than his highly touted heavy duty cast frame woofer. I am using them both and A/B tests have shown this in my room and in my systems. Given that Bob Crites uses Eminence to make his woofers, here are a few Eminence quotes that could be found on the website and in various marketing materials regarding stamped steel and cast aluminum. "Eminence pressed steel baskets possess remarkable strength and are often stronger than the cast frames of other manufacturers. " "Pressed steel loudspeakers have been the backbone of Eminence Speaker LLC for nearly 40 years. You could say we have had a lot of practice at making these! " For cast speakers: "It has often been said that Eminence professional loudspeakers are not expensive enough. A genuine American-built cast-frame high performance transducer must surely cost considerably more after all, most other premium speakers do. The fact is that nobody else in the world makes quantities like Eminence and nobody else can waste as little during the manufacturing process. If we made fewer and rejected more, we could match their prices Eminence Pro models have always been a remarkably good value. Following a series of detail revisions, they are now an even better value." "We offer two basket materials - pressed steel and die cast aluminum. While pressed steel is adequate for most applications, die cast aluminum baskets are superior cosmetically, structurally, and magnetically. Aluminum does not conduct the magnetic field out of the gap thereby making the motor strength higher and the stray magnetic field lower." Edited February 8, 2016 by Fjd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edriz Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 is a benefit to the cast frame? How loud do you listen to your LaScala ? Every 15 in horn type woofer/motor works in a LaScala bin, each with a tone/sound of its own. Some better at low levels, others at PA levels I have an EV 15B in my center LaScala and it has a better sound for me than stock K33-P. On the Crites web site the cast CW1526 is not recommended for LaScala. Their woofer may be wider than the stock interior and may require grinding of materials for fitment, also extra gaskets for xmax excursions could be needed. I know how to get the cast frame woofers to fit. Ive talked with Bob Crites and know exactly what I need to do to get the Cast Frame woofers to fit. That's not my concern. As for volume levels, I listen at different levels, depending on what Im listening too. Most of the time I do listen to metal and the volume can get mighty loud. Other times I might be listening to concerts on Blue ray and the volume can get to concert levels and on rare occassions I may listen to early motown and the volume would be a more normal listing level. Ive heard the Cast Frame woofers produce a more smooth bass, with more detail and better dynamics. Personally, I think the bass is smooth as they are but if there can be more improvements Im game. If not, Im leaving them as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The frame alone is not going to gain you anything notable. Apply some dynamat to your steel stamped frame K-33 and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edriz Posted February 10, 2016 Author Share Posted February 10, 2016 if there can be more improvements Im game. If not, Im leaving them as is. You will be be listening to the cheapest woofer in a reasonably priced box. I guess Im not picking up what your putting down. what do you mean by "cheapest woofer in a reasonably priced box"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Here is my experience. I tried the Crites cast frame in Cornwalls, heard not difference. After grinding the side down to fit (reason Bob says it won't fit), I heard no difference. Tried the Crites cast frame, and the K-33-b in my Jamborette, along with the Eminence Kappa 15c, and heard no difference. I even measured them thinking that I was nuts. The stamped frame K-33-b performed the same in the low frequencies but a little better in the mid frequencies. I say and I say boy, why fix what isn't broken. The only speaker I didn't put the 15c in, was the Lascala. Other than that, I heard no difference with it in my Jamborette or Cornwall. If your woofers are blown or rotted then I would spend money replacing them. Other than that, nope. I guess there could be a tonal difference but not enough for me to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 11, 2016 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2016 (edited) I think his cast frame woofers are modeled after the ones you have in your LaScala's already. I think, check Bob's website to be sure. Yes a tiny bit of the frame needs to be ground off 2 edges of the frame to get them to fit. I had to do the same thing to get them to fit, I used them in 4 MWM cabinets. IMO, I don't think you would hear a difference if your current ones are working. Edited February 11, 2016 by dtel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted February 11, 2016 Moderators Share Posted February 11, 2016 Most of the time I do listen to metal and the volume can get mighty loud Would a K-43 fit, there made to take a little more of a beating in older pro models ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 FWIW, I thought the Eminences beat the rest, in this particular setup at least, in terms of a little added clarity and distinctiveness between the multiple tone qualities from the instrument. I couldn't tell much of any difference between the Eminences; the non-Eminences were on a little lower plane, to my ear, but the differences were indeed small. MHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 That video has nothing to do with how well any brand work/compare in a pair of LaScalas. Even playing through a clean channel on the amp (would tell you more about the speakers) doesn't tell you much. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I put some cast frames in my Klipschorns and I think they sound good. Not sure if better than the stock but my stock ones were 1972 models and I thought maybe someone else who wanted originals could use them. Did not want to ruin originals cause I like to turn it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I use the cast frame woofers in my 76 K-horns as well. A little more meat on the bottom end than the stock k-33, but the La Scala is a different beast below 100 HZ so I don't think the difference would be as big. I built a Tuba Table sub for my La Scalas and was happy all the way down to 25HZ or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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