sunnysal Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 As a New Yorker living "temporarily" in Central America (ten years now and counting), the triad of realities of international shipping, customs and "may the buyer beware" have become cornerstones of my life as an internet consumer. I have paid $600 in import duties for $100 in wooden picture frame materials. I have recieved all manner of electronics with dings, crushed corners and even with so many lose parts inside that they sounded like a Maraca when you moved them. I have bought goods that were totally mis-represented only to find that I could not ship them back a reasonable expense even if the seller agreeed to take them back. I have slowly and painfully learned lessons that have reduced the incidence of dismay. A few of my golden rules: 1. I carefully check out a seller before buying anything, past performance DOES serve as a good indicator of the future in retail. 2. I carefully research the physical and operating condition of any item before buying or shipping, at least documenting with photos and the sellers wirtten words the condition of the item before shipment. 3. Every item sent to me is shipped via a reliable shipper, UPS, DHL and one or two local/regional companies with which I do business regularly and thus have some leverage, just in case. 4. I dictate, and pay for, special packing to ensure I minimize the chance of damage in transit. Double boxing, plastic wrap, foam peanuts, etc. whatever I would do to try to pack each item to protect it maximumly from damage. (this does not always work since I may not be an expert on the best packing for all items, I learned this when I recieved a center channel speaker with both woofers "shot" out fo the cabinet, it had been mounting in expanded foam, plastic wrapped, triple boxed, but the laws of physics won out). and lastly, 5. I demand that all shipments are insured and make sure I understand how to place a claim. Re: Myram's responsability, I would hope a seller would back up his sale by ensuring a favorable resolution. My view (admitting I am a buyer almost always) is that if he fails to deliver the item in good shape he should re-imburse the buyer and get his money back via the insurance. If he did not want this responsability he should of, up front, informed the buyer that he could not guarantee safe delivery and that the buyer would have to take charge of shipping and insurance. Terrible when this happens but at least you know you are not the only one who has had that "spoiled Christmas morning" type of moment. I wish you the best and hope Myram makes good on the deal. Regards, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Orange Peel: ....This board is wonderful, I've never learned so much about HT in my life, and without this board, I would be missing out big time! Thanks guys! Just informed Scott via email and updated the thread in the HT Section. Claims Check arrived today! Mailing reimbursement check tomorrow. Total of 18 days from damage notification to receipt of UPS Claims Check. That is a very reasonable timeframe imo. Think having a personal UPS Account and submitting fully documented photo's of the items and boxes conditions prior to shipment certainly aleviated any doubt as to damage occuring while in their custody. Cut Sheets were also provided that identified the RF-3's and RF-3II's build dates and MSRP's. As a seller it certainly required me to go that extra yardage. But I strongly felt that Scott as my customer, deserved nothing less than my best effort. That effort was to assure the buyer received the maximum amount of payout from the carrier. I do believe that was achieved as payment exceeded the insured amount for the damaged item. I must say that I hope to never decend into the Claims Zone again. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-06-2002 at 06:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted September 6, 2002 Share Posted September 6, 2002 Hey Wes - But was there ever any question in your mind as to what the proper course of action would be? NOPE, NOPE, NO WAY-! Every once in a very little while, I get reminded that there are truely nice people out there, and my faith in humanity is restored in just a small way. And then I run into LESSS Thanks Y'all This message has been edited by cluless on 09-06-2002 at 09:09 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Well, I think it's safe to assume that Bernard, and this Forum, won't be hearing from Steve again. Sad indeed... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I don't think Bernard should have given Myram up, he should have "pinged" him here to establish communication and not ratted him out. And then you have the guys that turned on Myram before they even heard his story, remind me to never let them on a jury. Stand-up guys they ain't cept the guy that was sorry. On the other hand having heard the story I figure Myram just shoulda said "**** it" and sent Bernie his dough back, big deal. A whiner and a reneger, I think they're both ****ed-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 It is far better for individuals to establish their own personal accounts with carriers. As a frequent buyer of high dollar items, I utilize my UPS Account to insure and ship my items from sellers to my residence. I print and scan shipment labels as PDF files. Then email those labels to the seller as PDF attachments. I only rely on the seller to properly package the items. The carrier has a shared responsibility to ensure the seller has meet the required packaging requirement prior to acceptance. So I will not allow a carrier to slough off responsibility by alleging improper packaging by shipper. My position is, their acceptance of the shipment implies all packaging requirements were MET. In the unfortunate event claim processing is required, I will not have to rely on the seller to properly drive the train. My hands are at the controls and I will get fully compensated! I urge every buyer to get their own account with a carrier...for high dollar shipments insure and ship your merchandise against your account...best to be the Captain of Your Own Ship! ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-07-2002 at 01:08 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 Itll be hard to win, without taking the last shot, the eight ball! Myram has been with us some time, and he has helped me out! I hope he returns, being a seller on E-bay i had to file a claim on a mcintosh C26 glass front, i filed the claim, but didnt have the original reciept, so i couldnt get the money, its all a SUK scam! Im the meantime, ive been waiting for the guy to contact me, so i can buy a new one from mcintosh, and have it sent to him! If i sell on this site, itll be i the USA and thats it, ill even deliver, so i can see some of the country! Ive had 3 pioneers delivered, a KLF c-7, and a sewing machine, all damaged, im staying away from internet purchases! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convict Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 I think the main reason people like myself "jumped" to conclusions is, it's apparent that theres a communication problem with the seller if, the buyer has to come and post here AFTER 7 months. Not to mention, if you buy insurance and ship, you will keep the reciept, esp international. To make a long story short, buyer got a broken speaker, seller got buyers money, from that, I can make my own judgement. This topic was actually a heads up to me from another forum member, while I may not have a big post count, it seems in this forum, people look out for each other, and I thank them. In my eyes, seller should get speakers back, buyer gets his money and IF there was an insurance claim, then the seller would get a check for it, but if theres no claim, why would he want his speaker back? Hes already got the money for it. Thats my opinion, and my choice to NOT do business with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted September 7, 2002 Share Posted September 7, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Jim Cornell: ...Myram has been with us some time, and he has helped me out!... Jim, Myram was helpful to me as well. He shared several informative emails with me in the past. I try never to may any accusations or judgements because these situations are like divorce stories. You know, his version..her versionand then theirs the truth. That statement is not meant to cast dispersion on any parties character or conduct. We must remember one point of fact clearly established; The Buyer has not been compensated for his expenditure. The main point of my post was to advise those of us who make high dollar purchases to get a personal account and ship our own goods. When problems arise, we are the claimants, not the sellers. The seller must still assist, but as the claimant, we have far more input in driving the resolution train. It's most unfortunate when circumstances of this nature are elevated within open or public forums. I do hope that Bernard will be fully compensated. Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 09-07-2002 at 02:09 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 I'll put my $0.02 in here, only from the perspective of buying and selling, not commenting on the current situation. I sold my KV-4 (actually Chickey's) to another board member after I picked up my Academy. Sent it FedEx Ground as I have an account with them and my office has a scheduled pick-up time. Packed the speaker in it's factory box, with all the factory packing materials and then used brown paper around the outside to disguise the contents. Wrote all over the box "Fragile" so nobody would miss it. Turns out, it arrives, and the tweeter horn was badly cracked and the box showed a big dent where it must have been dropped. Buyer said he believed the damage was not there before shipping, as I sent him pics of the speaker before shipping. So, he called Klipsch to order a replacement horn and then he faxed me a copy of the receipt. I immediately Paypal'ed him the cost of the horn, figuring I would get the money out of FedEx. I faxed in all the forms they required, except a copy of the original receipt. Chickey couldn't find it, but I didn't think it would be a problem for a $30 claim, and we had pics to prove the damage. No luck...FedEx said they needed the original receipt and wouldn't honor my claim without it. I was hot, but figured it was a one-time damage, since I used FedEx ground to ship my KV-3 to Cluless without problems. But, after using FedEx to send off a pair of KG 1.2s, which were also handled roughly, I am swearing off (and at) FedEx. It might very well be that smaller boxes have a tendency to be easier to throw around, as my Chorus II purchase from Mike Lindsey went perfect, but then it was UPS and it's pretty hard for one person to manhandle a 100lb box with a Chorus II tucked inside. I guess my final thought is this: I was the seller and the buyer had a problem. I made it right for him, no questions asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 quote: Originally posted by justin_tx_16: how about thebeast, sent him $65 for la scala plans he got from ebay and never saw my money's purchase... still waiting, been months upon months. well, thebeast is working with me, stupid outlook was blocking all his emails! why i ask... anyway, it seems the guy i bought the plans off of is not a good guy at all, seems he has many unsent products... The auction is http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=888872448&ed=1025496033&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOA:US:2 ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5s> Email Me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatManFever Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 It's really sad to hear all these bad "shipping" stories. It makes FedX and UPS defeat its own purpose. I will be very leery now of buying anything via Ebay (due to horror shipping stories) and will request extra packing on sensitive equipment. It's really sad with all types of "precious" goods being shipped around only to arrive DAMAGED! What good is the speedy and marvel of UPS or FedX shipping technology if it arrives DAMAGED? It makes no sense sometimes. This message has been edited by CatManFever on 09-10-2002 at 04:38 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted September 10, 2002 Share Posted September 10, 2002 Here's my take on shipping: If it's big and at all fragile (like Khorn, Cornwall, LaScala, Belle), faggeddabout shipping 'em (especially if it's not from a seller here). Get in your car and DRIVE!! Rent something if necessary. There's no better motivation to drive across a state or two (or five) than picking up a big set of Klipsch. I drove to Atlanta to pick up a righteously priced set of Chorus from edster00 - 12 hours! I got a String Cheese Incident concert as an extra bonus for the drive, and a good demo of Edster's gear, too. The wagon we drove in sustained $6000 in hail damage on the way home (insurance paid it) - but the Chorus made it, safe and sound Another point to be made about avoiding shipping is that this relieves strain on the buyer AND seller. Either way you worry about the possible damage if goods are shipped. Most reputable sellers would rather someone pick them up anyway. I restrict all searches to areas where pickup is possible. I may give some exception to sellers on this forum (who know how to ship large items and are generally more reputable than the average ebay seller) - but I think face to face is the best way to go. You simply can't trust the middleman (shipper). If for some reason the seller doesn't want to meet face to face (especially if the buyer goes to the seller), there's a bigger problem. This approach serves me well in weeding out possible ripoffs. In person pickup allows for inspection of goods before payment, so you can veto any item that is misrepresented (such as mystery replacement drivers, water/other damage, etc). I realize that this is not an option for many here on the forum, but living in the midwestern U.S. allows access to a potentially rich Klipsch used market. I lie in wait for that golden opportunity, then strike quick! Still looking for the OO Belle(s) - would be oh so good as a center channel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenten Posted September 12, 2002 Share Posted September 12, 2002 OK, my $2 (cents don't get anything nowadays) An ugly situation on 0ur Board! We can only "do unto others"...It looks bad that Myram decided to bail on helping. I would'nt do that to others. He did'nt respond with proof of insurance, he has'nt reported making any calls to Australia (like to the post office). All he has done is said "see ya!" Ones definition of Honor & Integrity is the measure of a man. Myran has told us who he is, it is up to us to hear him. I hear you Myram--the ball is in your court, we are watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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