Marvel Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Schu said: My preference is for on axis to be behind the LP... did you try that? I agree with this... Imaging seems better when the convergence is slightly behind the listener's position. The AA is a rather simple build if you can have a friend build them for you. Getting the parts there shouldn't be too hard. Am sending from my phone, but I can get a list of which capacitors would be the best or rate from top choice on down, if you would choose to go that route. I'm listening to a superb acoustic CD right now, which really stresses a system. Dave Holland & Pepe Habichuela - Hands. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Can you get capacitors over there at electronics site or store and use a schematic to turn yours into AA type ??? All you need are 2 capacitors . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Like HDBR said it they should cross in front of you and I see you already proved it to yourself I think .... The crossover above is type A the Type AA requires more parts and not any better. You ne 2 - 2UF caps and 2 - 13UF caps pretty easy to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 thank you again and again for your answers. I tried to cross the speakers behind me and it has not be convincing at all. Stereo image was too wide and bass were ineffectives (without the physical sensation), as if the speakers were not in phase. Defintively, in my room, crossing lines on my knees is the best position. Concerning the crossovers, I would prefer to buy an used pair, change the caps, and keeping the AL like they are actually. But is it really a big or subtile improvement ? But for the instant, I can't buy everything at the same time. First a decent preamp and perhpas next month the crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Glad you are making progress, but, why keep the AL's? Those are the least desirable crossovers for the La Scala. When, or if you ever decided to sell your speakers, if the buyer knew anything about Klipsch and La Scala, they would appreciate the crossovers being updated and changed to a "better" configuration..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Because I'm unfortunately not rich and I must choose my priorities. Here in France, LS speakers are sold 2200 $ minimum when you're Lucky and quick. And second because anyone ansewerd to me: in which way changing the crossosvers improve sound quality ? What is better whith new crossovers ? It will certainly be for next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 IMHO, if your current drivers and crossovers are in good shape, leave them alone for now. Same goes for your amp and pre-amp. First play around with low cost options that offer the biggest bang for the euro: room placement, speaker positioning, listening position, room treatments. Your next biggest bang for the euro would be to add a subwoofer. Again, this is assuming these LaScala's are up to spec. You can download REW (free) and use the mic on your laptop to run some test sweeps to check if a driver is spitting out distortion. I use two subs with my LS2's to add some (and even out) bass below about 80hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted October 30, 2016 Author Share Posted October 30, 2016 Honnestly, I don't think I need a sub. Bass are realistic, they just miss a little of physical feeling. But with music I'm listening to, a subwoofer would be unreasonable. Organ basses sound great, double bass sound as it should be. Just the lower notes of electric bass are a little hold back while going down from B, Bb to low E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 30, 2016 Share Posted October 30, 2016 Enjoy comme-ca, then. Save your argent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Since your LaScalas are actually sitting on a SMOOTH-SURFACED floor, you need to take your LaScalas and turn them upside down, then remove the four metal gliders on the bottom panel of each one...just pry them out, since they are just hammered onto the bottoms. Then you need to get some approximately 1.5" to 2" diameter peel-and-stick black neoprene rubber "grippers", which are about 1/4" thick, and put one at each corner of the LaScala bottom panel with an additional one at the center of each LaScala bottom panel. It is OK to double stack the grippers in these positions, if you want to. Then turn the speakers right-side up and position the speakers as you had them when you finally got rid of the metallic sound from cymbals issue. The neoprene grippers will stabilize the speakers on that smooth-surfaced floor, and the bass and the rest of the driver performance will improve. The metal gliders originally used on the bottoms to NOT stabilize the speakers, especially the WOOFER within them, because on smooth-surfaced floors those metal "feet" will not grip anything....therefore they will NOT stabilize the speaker cabinets, and bass vibrations move the cabinets ever so slightly, and the cabinet absorbs some of the bass instead of the bass horn lens PROJECTING it. It may sound crazy, but just try it and see for yourself! Keep in mind that after the neoprene grippers are installed, you will need to lift them to place the speakers where you want them, instead of trying to slide them around to get them into position. It is a very inexpensive fix which WORKS! RickTate...can verify this....and I am surprised he hasn't already told you this, since he is also a proponent of using the grippers! Another thing is that you do NOT have the speakers in CORNERS...you have them toed-in, but NOT in corners 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 HDBRbuilder offers you excellent advice. He was a Klipsch employee. He built La Scalas and other Klipsch speakers. I accomplished the same improvement by putting dense closed cell foam between La Scalas and the hard surface below them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Like HDBR said ................Do that..lol. If you want to keep the old crossovers call or e-mail Bob Crites see how much he thinks it would cost to ship you new As or new AAs. But if you are worried about keeping it original your current crossover needs rebuilt anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Actually, I use these pads: Speakers are just put down on these pads, metal gliders being in the rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 You need to get the gliders out, and the whole idea is to COUPLE the speakers to the floor, with as little space between the bottom of the speaker cabinet and the floor as possible. That way the speaker cabinet will basically be ON the floor instead of sitting above it. The grippers get that done for you. And it takes more than just the four corners, so put a gripper in the center of the bottom panel, also. Trust me, you will hear and feel the difference. If the speakers are in a room corner, the corner reinforces the bass from the speakers in a way that a flat wall cannot. This is important because the corner itself will act as an extension of the speaker. Granted, with horn-loading, this is not as big of an issue as it is with cone driver loading, but it still makes a big difference in what you get out of your listening experience. MORE BOTTOM END will be there, in addition to clearer mids and highs. Grippers and corners will solve most of what you feel is missing. Another POSSIBLE alternative to the grippers is that drawer/shelf medium that is basically a neoprene type item and keeps things in drawers from moving around when the drawer is opened or closed. It is also used in tool cabinets and such. With this medium, you can literally peal and stick it to the bottom of the entire bottom panel, after removing the metal gliders, and trim off the excess. It will actually couple the entire bottom of the speaker to the floor: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 >>> "Is this a real sound difference between AL and AL-3 crossover ?" Yes and double Yes. Except the AL-3 would be very expensive to acquire in France and not necessarily a step in the right direction. Many, many parts involved with those things. You have the electronics and apparently the ears to appreciate the difference between the much-deprecated AL and a good set of A. Several members here (including myself) can build you a set of crossovers that will kill the ALs. They don't have to cost a fortune. Check out the parts count on the posted "A" schematic. More are not better. In the long run you'll be better off with tube pre and power amps. For a close up and personal setup like yours you might even check into a single ended triode deal. You don't need a lot of power there, especially with upgraded crossovers. As always, just my opinion. Others may differ and are welcome and even encouraged to. There's a lot of stuff out there. Some of it takes time to grow into or get used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That drawer liner stuff is cheap and effective. Try it, but pop the metal feet off first. They were installed at the factory to make the speakers easy to slide across smooth concrete floors. The metal feet have a thing like a nail sticking out of the back. Any way you get a pry tool under them is OK. If you don't like what happens you can always tap them back in with a small hammer. No big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 hour ago, Tom Mobley said: In the long run you'll be better off with tube pre and power amps. For a close up and personal setup like yours you might even check into a single ended triode deal. You don't need a lot of power there, especially with upgraded crossovers...As always, just my opinion. Others may differ and are welcome and even encouraged to. If you do consider other amplifiers (and I'm not advocating that you do), just note that tube amplifiers have just been around for a long time and there is a nostalgia there. There are better amplifiers out there, IMHO. I believe that the real difference in sound is not really tubes but rather amplifiers having high output impedance: SETs are largely liked by those that like the output impedance even higher than push-pull designs, but they have relatively large amounts of even-order harmonic distortion that isn't so good for minimizing modulation distortion. First Watt produces extremely good FET amplifiers that sound the same as tubes but without the bother of tubes: http://www.firstwatt.com/prod.html Just look for First Watt amplifier models with higher output impedance in order to duplicate the sound of better tube amplifiers (but without the large amount of harmonic distortion present in cheaper tube amplifiers). Nelson Pass also resides diyAudio for the do-it-yourself community. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 My amplifier is an hybrid Vincent D-150. 2x170 w, 4 output tubes, 60lbs, 2 enormous toroïdal transformers and first 15W in A class. His reputation is very very good. It's the first and best amp made by Vincent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I wouldn't recommend any changes to your amplifier. That's more than enough power in class A. La Scalas are about 104 dB at one metre given ~1 watt input. You'll get ~115 dB peaks in class A alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borisravel Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Hi ! Just a few news. I tried neoprene pads. It wasn't a big success. In fact, my listening room is on a first floor, but my floor is layed on beams. So, between the ground flour's ceiling and the first floor's floor, there is a lot of space and it's too resonant for bass. But I have a good new: here is my new preamp: And now, I've real bass ! My presentiment was right: my previous AV preamp was blocked on bass, treble and dynamic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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