jason str Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 The magnet only works if the debris is magnetic, wear parts such as bearings are not magnetic neither are aluminum parts such as pistons. A finer filter will clog faster leaving you only bypass. Particle debris from the pan/bottom can get stirred up as you drive, differentials and manual transmissions have no filter to catch it. The choice is up to you If you do not wish to completely drain the oil with every oil change, don't let me stop you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 On 12/20/2016 at 10:20 PM, dwilawyer said: That really isn't the case, you can get it pretty much bone dry. It is actually the only method youncan use on a MB. Depending on the make and model of vehicle, where drain plug is located, you can actually get more out than using a drain plug. Yea, that's why the engineers included a drain plug. They love wasting money, just like the manufacturers. I'm with Curley..... it ain't gonna happen.... but I don't really care because it's your car. On 12/22/2016 at 7:40 AM, jason str said: The choice is up to you If you do not wish to completely drain the oil with every oil change, don't let me stop you. By all means..... carry-on shade tree boy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2016 41 minutes ago, Gilbert said: Yea, that's why the engineers included a drain plug. They love wasting money, just like the manufacturers. I'm with Curley..... it ain't gonna happen.... but I don't really care because it's your car. By all means..... carry-on shade tree boy!!! Why don't they magnetize drain plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2016 42 minutes ago, Gilbert said: Yea, that's why the engineers included a drain plug. They love wasting money, just like the manufacturers. I'm with Curley..... it ain't gonna happen.... but I don't really care because it's your car. By all means..... carry-on shade tree boy!!! Why don't they magnetize drain plugs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: Why don't they magnetize drain plugs? Some do, I have had the stock and aftermarket ones but a lot of metal in there is non-ferrous. Needs a chip detector or oil debris monitor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2016 25 minutes ago, USNRET said: Some do, I have had the stock and aftermarket ones but a lot of metal in there is non-ferrous. Needs a chip detector or oil debris monitor I've never seen a stock one with a magnet. As you know, in aviation, oil changes and filtration are a completely different thing. Every oil change a sample goes off to a lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 We did away with SOAP sample a long time ago in 'most' aircraft. New ones that I am familiar with (F-22) use oil debris monitoring and actually continually monitor the particulate count. OTOH, during my time in helos we did tail rotor gear box samples every 10 flt hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Many engines have come with magnets on the end of the drain plugs, most transmissions used to have them in the pans as well but you save $1 on every car you sell by not including it it adds up and bottom line comes before quality these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 48 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: I've never seen a stock one with a magnet. As you know, in aviation, oil changes and filtration are a completely different thing. Every oil change a sample goes off to a lab. My BMW and Honda S2000 are aluminum blocks, heads, etc. and a magnetic drain plug would not make a great deal of sense. Both vehicles have magnetic drain plugs in the differentials and manual transmissions. Living in one of the major oil producing areas in North America I have access to several labs that also do used oil/fluid analysis but I only drop a sample off every 4th oil change which works out to ~ 3 years with synthetic oil/transmission, differential fluids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Wolfbane said: My BMW and Honda S2000 are aluminum blocks, heads, etc. and a magnetic drain plug would not make a great deal of sense. Both vehicles have magnetic drain plugs in the differentials and manual transmissions. Living in one of the major oil producing areas in North America I have access to several labs that also do used oil/fluid analysis but I only drop a sample off every 4th oil change which works out to ~ 3 years with synthetic oil/transmission, differential fluids. What filters are you finding to be the most effective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 38 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: What filters are you finding to be the most effective? I used the Honda OEM S2000 filters made in Japan by Toyo Roki during the time they were more readily available in Canada (now Honda Canada seems to get their poorly made oil filters from Fram). Since then with the Honda, I've used Mobil 1 Oil Filters or NAPA Platinum which are made by WIX I believe. For the BMW I used Mahle or Hengst made in Germany or Austria. This car has a drop in from the top-side cannister filter. I change the oil in both these vehicles by time, once a year, as I don't drive either vehicle in the winter months and don't put on enough miles to require changing the oil and filter more often then that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted December 26, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 26, 2016 Have read people having similar experience people have had with Fram, like why bother to changer the oil. I have had really good results with Wix on filtration tests, as well as Royal Purple when Wix equlevant wasn't available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 On 12/20/2016 at 3:00 PM, Wolfbane said: With an in-garage hoist? Thinking about buying this 20 Gal Portable Waste Oil Drain Unit: I got one of those....... I use the smaller 8 Gal drains more, there easier to handle. I can pick-up the 8 gal ones and dump it in my 250 gal wast oil container. The other one I have to wheel it behind my shop and run a air hose through the wall... it just takes more time. The one in the pic is a over seas made unit there OK..... The US made ones cost alot more... This is the one I use at the shop.... You can pick them up for around $90/$120... Some times they offer a free transmission funnel with them.... well the funnel isn't free, that comes with the $120 ones MKP :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 5 hours ago, Wolfbane said: I used the Honda OEM S2000 filters made in Japan by Toyo Roki during the time they were more readily available in Canada (now Honda Canada seems to get their poorly made oil filters from Fram) Yea you can't get the Toyo Roki filters any longer..... well you can, but dealers carry the ones mostly made by Fram. Fram has been making the filters for Honda for a long time. I was working back at the dealers when they switched... We would say these filters are not made as well as the Toyo Roki's. At the shop I stock Union Sangyo oil filters for all the Asian cars I work on. I buy them in case lots. I think there a excellent filter for the money. I've never cut one open but they feel better made than the Honda Fram filters, I can tell you they weigh a few grams more. I've weighed em. MKP :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I've never used a vacuum system to suck engine oil out of a crankcase and don't plan on it........ On the lift drain bolt out!! That's why it's there. You'll never get all the old oil out... most of it lays up in the cylinder head. As far a dirt, debris, particles, well yea it's in the oil and most of it is carbon from the combustion cycle.... and yes the filter picks up most of this "stuff". If you have this debris and particles in your oil that you can see, it's probably bearing material and too late for a oil change I was changing oil in a Honda Accord a few years back. I pulled the drain bolt out and was do my thing, checking the car out. I looked over at the oil draining out of the oil pan, It wasn't coming out very fast. I waited till all the oil had drained out to see what was going on. I looked into the drain hole and saw something large blocking the hole. I took a small pocket screw driver and I could move it around... it didn't take me long to figure out what it was. It was a 14mm head of a bolt and it wasn't coming out of the drain hole. Yea it was a 14mm main cap bolt head that had broke. I've never seen that before... I've seen head bolts fail were just the head broke off but not a main cap bolt. I told my customer that was waiting for his car... he said he wasn't worried about it even after I gave him a full explanation of what could happen. he was like finish the oil change and I'll take my chances... There were some notes made on the repair order that he had to sign before that turd left my shop... 10 hours ago, USNRET said: OTOH, during my time in helos we did tail rotor gear box samples every 10 flt hours. yea man I remember pulling out those chip detector plugs out of tail rotor gear boxes, sending off samples and the inspectors always wanted to look at the plug. Man that was a long time ago...if I remember it's a 42* and 90* gearbox on the old Bell 205's (Huey's) My aviation training turned me into the anal auto mechanic I am today MKP :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 6 minutes ago, MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE said: yea man I remember pulling out those chip detector plugs out of tail rotor gear boxes, sending off samples and the inspectors always wanted to look at the plug. and Dude you want what? I pulled that sample 2 days ago and I am on a 3 minute SAR (Search and Rescue) alert. I wiped that plug clean hours ago, looked like fuzz to me. But then I have had a couple of 42* failures, not fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, USNRET said: But then I have had a couple of 42* failures, not fun. Never had the pleasure Hey I was just the crewchief stuck in the back with the medic in those old 205's... only a couple hard landings for me. Once I got into civilian aviation I didn't fly a whole lot unless it was to balance a rotor system. MKP :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 17 minutes ago, MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE said: Never had the pleasure Hey I was just the crewchief stuck in the back with the medic in those old 205's... only a couple hard landings for me. Once I got into civilian aviation I didn't fly a whole lot unless it was to balance a rotor system. MKP :-) Typed a bunch, way too much, deleted and tossing back to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 1 hour ago, MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE said: Yea you can't get the Toyo Roki filters any longer..... well you can, but dealers carry the ones mostly made by Fram. Fram has been making the filters for Honda for a long time. I was working back at the dealers when they switched... We would say these filters are not made as well as the Toyo Roki's. At the shop I stock Union Sangyo oil filters for all the Asian cars I work on. I buy them in case lots. I think there a excellent filter for the money. I've never cut one open but they feel better made than the Honda Fram filters, I can tell you they weigh a few grams more. I've weighed em. MKP :-) I've owned a filter cutting tool that works great for opening up the can on the metal filters for several years. Gives me a good look at the filtration material used plus a chance to see if I'm picking up any metal. The cheapest Fram filters are made with thin walls and low quality paper. You can buy more expensive filters from Fram that are okay but why bother when almost everything else on the market is made better (i.e. Purolater, Wix, Baldwin, etc.)? I had no doubt I was looking at another OCOD (orange can of death) when I cut open the Fram filters that Honda Canada replaced the well made Toyo Roki filters with. I never used that filter but cut it open to confirm it was not anything I wanted to trust in use for 12 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahaSHO Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 For those worried about getting the last bit of oil... I don't drain the oil out of my oil coolers when I change oil and I can't say that's ever been a problem. Lines and cooler are over a quart. I've also used the Mityvac for years, also hasn't been an issue. Let the filter do its job and change often enough that you're not using heavily sheared oil. Also, I've used the drain the OP is asking about. Works good too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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