Should I consider tube amp for my K-horns?

[JL Sargent]

On 12/28/2016 at 3:18 PM, Chris A said:

Mine can be seen here

 

Chris, just showed my wife your setup. "Lord, he must be single"

[Ceptorman]

19 minutes ago, JL Sargent said:

 

Chris, just showed my wife your setup. "Lord, he must be single"

With all his knowledge, I had a felling ChrisA had a very well setup system....I wasn't disappointed. 

[Chris A]

On 1/2/2017 at 2:28 PM, JL Sargent said:

 

Chris, just showed my wife your setup. "Lord, he must be single"

Nope...married 31.5 years.  She has her rooms and I have my one (with a temporary audio surplus storage area that used to be the study...which will revert back to a study once I sell off a few items that've stacked up).  The main listening room actually looks a lot more civilized in real life than the photo gives it credit for (...or maybe we've just acclimatized).  I'm working on the MEH thing right now--at least two more, which will also result in more stuff being moved to the study.

 

She loves the sound. Perhaps then...

 

There's an increasing threshold of setup ugliness that becomes more tolerable as the sound continues to improve. 

 

Maybe I could call that Askew's Law. 

 

Chris

[Schu]

On 1/2/2017 at 8:19 AM, Chris A said:

Bel Canto also uses ICEpower modules: http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/news/news?id=59

 

These modules are also available in lower power versions as self-contained modules that you can integrate yourself into a metal box--and save even more money.

 

Chris

 

 

Of course they are based on the BO module...

 

 

[jason str]

Are these a similar design available on the newer Pioneer units ? >link<  And <here>

[AaronB123]

I've heard pioneer was taken over by onkyo. I'd this true, and if so is  onkyo any good? I have no experience with them. 

[Chris A]

13 hours ago, AaronB123 said:

is onkyo any good?

I've used an Onkyo preamp/processor since 2009 and have been fairly impressed.  However, I use active crossovers and external amplifiers since I acquired the Onkyo PR-SC886 (which is the same internal electronics as an Integra DHC-9.9).  I've found that the amplifiers are responsible for the majority of the differences in sound. YMMV.

 

I personally recommend AVPs, which are usually better performers than most AVRs, unless you can find exactly what you're looking for in the amplifiers in an AVR and their resulting sound. Using an AVP also makes it much easier if you ever intend to use active crossovers. 

[AaronB123]

1 minute ago, Chris A said:

I think the issue

I've used an Onkyo preamp/processor since 2009 and have been fairly impressed.  However, I've used active crossovers and external amplifiers.  I've found that the amplifiers are responsible for the majority of the differences in sound. YMMV.

 

I personally recommend AVPs, which are usually better performers than most AVRs, unless you can find exactly what you're looking for in the amplifiers in an AVR and their resulting sound. Using an AVP also makes it much easier if you ever intend to use active crossovers. 

By avp you mean Audio video processor right? What do you think of Emotiva processors?

[Chris A]

I don't have an opinion.   It probably depends on the loudspeakers that you're using to a degree. 

 

Khorns can be more demanding of amplifiers--particularly that you're using a lot less power on average that other models of loudspeakers--even like the RF series, etc., i.e., I wouldn't assume that listening experiences with other loudspeaker models would transfer well to Khorns.

 

AVP = audio/visual preamplifier/processor. 

[PrestonTom]

On 1/2/2017 at 3:28 PM, JL Sargent said:

 

Chris, just showed my wife your setup. "Lord, he must be single"

Our wives must be sisters.

[Schu]

Ive used onkyo (806) with heritage and I didnt like the sound personally. I had the same reaction as I do when I listen to Yamaha and heritage. 

 

Same with emotiva... I just dont care for the sound. Its not that these makers are under powered or unresolved.

 

I am of the opinion that these new better end heritage speakers are so revealing, that they not only show the short comings of your room layout... they show the short comings of your equipment set up. I think that it is entirely possible for a person to buy a really great speaker hoping for sonic bliss and when it arrives and  they couple it with their old equipment there is an element of shock, and they will never realize the true full potential of that speaker. That is the main reason I began to slowly introduce tube elements into my system... one component at a time. Its a process, and I try to carefully walk this path before committing to the next step.  

 

This is a system after all.

[Schu]

2 hours ago, jason str said:

Are these a similar design available on the newer Pioneer units ? >link<  And <here>

The last pioneer elite series that used ice based class d was the sc35/sc37... that was a number of years ago. Pioneer has moved on to a different design class d.

Fwiw, not all ice based units are created equal. 

[AaronB123]

So I take it you guys probably don't think this would be a good match with the K horns?

 

http://emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1

[Schu]

Over your marantz pre/pro?

I dont think emotiva has anything on marantz... except cheaper pricing. 

 

Only you can answer the question "does it sound good" 

 

Ps... when did you get a c6?  Whats your impression so far?

[AaronB123]

18 minutes ago, Schu said:

Over your marantz pre/pro?

I dont think emotiva has anything on marantz... except cheaper pricing. 

 

Only you can answer the question "does it sound good" 

 

Ps... when did you get a c6?  Whats your impression so far?

I love the C6 it's absolutely incredible! I got it a couple months ago. 

[Chris A]

FWIW, the differences in amplifiers that some people talk about are eclipsed by the loudspeaker performance, room acoustics and placement in-room, along with acoustic treatments, etc. 

 

Which is to say, if you're worried about amplifiers, you've already got everything else completely under control.  I haven't seen too many of those instances...

 

Don't sweat it: follow your own ears.

 

Chris

[AaronB123]

Seeing that other thread with the guy with the La Scala's gave me a good idea. I took a video of my K-horns playing I'd love to hear everyones opinion. Now drop box is giving me trouble but it may work for you guys and if not you can download the video and it will play fine. Keep in mind this is being recorded from an iPhone not professional mic's. Also it's in 2 channel stereo mode, the La Scala is not playing it's just the K-horns and subs crossed at 40 hz.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6z4zl6fuka7nqs/Video Jan 03%2C 2 42 37 PM.mov?dl=0

[Schu]

1 hour ago, Chris A said:

FWIW, the differences in amplifiers that some people talk about are eclipsed by the loudspeaker performance, room acoustics and placement in-room, along with acoustic treatments, etc. 

 

Which is to say, if you're worried about amplifiers, you've already got everything else completely under control.  I haven't seen too many of those instances...

 

Don't sweat it: follow your own ears.

 

Chris

 But that doesnt preclude different amplifiers from having different characteristics...

I advocate finding an setup that meets your taste, not one that masks issues with other aspects of your listening experience.

[J M O N]

On 1/1/2017 at 9:39 PM, AaronB123 said:

What solid state amps would you recommend that come close to tube quality for 2 channel?

I prefer tube amplification but there are some very good solid state amps that can get you close.  Classé Audio is one of my favorite solid state brands and are very smooth. The great thing about Classé is that they are relatively inexpensive for being high-end stereo equipment (think Mark Levinson, Threshold, Krell, etc.) and their lower-powered amps are very affordable on the used market.  With Klipsch heritage, you don't need the high power amps.  70 Watts or so will be plenty.  I have in my possession a Classé amp and was listening to it with a tube preamp recently and the sound was wonderful.  Jeff Rowland is another great solid state amp that rivals tube amps in smoothness, but they tend to be on the more expensive side, even used.  For value, it is tough to beat Classé in my experience.

 

If you need multi-channel for HT, here is a great option:

 

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-classe-cav-75-multichannel-amp-6x75w-channels-bridgeable-to-3x150w-2017-01-02-amplifiers-94110-san-francisco-ca

 

Here is a very nice stereo amp that I have owned in the past.  This one is scratched up so you might be able to get it for $350 or so.

 

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649300514-classe-70-amplifier/images/1327603/

[J M O N]

3 hours ago, Schu said:

I am of the opinion that these new better end heritage speakers are so revealing, that they not only show the short comings of your room layout... they show the short comings of your equipment set up.

I think there is some truth to this comment.  I have experienced a very wide-range of performance with Kiipschorns just by using different upstream components.  I've also experienced different levels of performance with the same equipment being in different rooms (but I have to admit that is based on memory over longer periods of time as different rooms meant different houses).

 

I think you are getting good advice here.  If the La Scalas are sounding better than the Klipschorns, then there is something wrong somewhere else.  Your Klipschorns look like they might be relatively new -- if so, then it probably isn't them.  Your electronics are they same, so that shouldn't be the issue either (not to say you can't get improvements with better matched electronics).  Chris seems to be offering some good ideas regarding your room.  Based on your video, the ceiling appears to be very low (less than 8 feet?).