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Dave A

Finally have my two channel keeper

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I have had a set of AA crossover Industrial La Scalas for a while now. Really liked them but found myself turning the bass all the way down and still not being satisfied. Tried Forte II and Chorus and both were nice but still not what I wanted. Now I picked up a couple sets of KP-250s with their subs one of which was a KP 480 with a ported cabinet and no passive. Tried them out today and found out just how much I have been missing all this time.

 

  The industrial La Scalas to me have much better definition than the five sets of LSBRs I have gone through but the low end was muddy such as it was. Toccata and Fugue in D minor never sounded right to me with the three sets of speakers I mentioned above although the Forte II and Chorus were both much better with bass, just not as crisp a sound as the La Scalas. So today I hook the 480s to the La Scalas and get blown away by how much I had been missing. Instead of an attempt at bass or bass but no real clear definition to it I now had superb everything. Discovering that I can leave the bass settings close to neutral and hear all the instruments AND feed my bass desires with complete clarity.This was unexpected and for the first time I find myself completely satisfied with what I hear. I may very well change the caps out later this year as I have been advised this to will make a difference.

 

  I feed the 480s and La Scalas with an 80 watt Onkyo and can't begin to get near full output before it becomes painful. It's nice to see things move on the metal table close by. Hard to imagine so much volume from such a little wattage.

 

  John Albright stopped in and suggested that with the two 800 watt amps I got with the KP 250s and subs I should set them all up outside and have a yard party :lol:  I just might drag the La Scalas and 480s to the shop door and have at it one day just to see but I believe I will pass on the rest.

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 ---- 800 watt amps, LaScallas?? That just might be a slight overkill! But only by 795 watts or so -- 

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Nice! I picked up a set of the 250's with 480's a few years ago and was really impressed with the set, thought they were like the Chorus on steroids. I can only imagine how good they would sound with La Scalas on the top end, must be really incredible!

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John was suggesting all of my industrials which would have been four KP250s, two La Scalas, two KP115s and two KP480s. The subs and KP 250s came from a band/DJ setup. The subs still have original Klipsch dust covers on the speakers but only one of the four KP 250 woofers does and I can't imagine why.

 

 I tried the KP 250s with the KP 480s and compared to the KP 480 with the La Scalas the 250s weren't even close. I may try recapping the 250s though since I think they could and should sound better. For all I know everything may need caps especially the La Scalas since they are 37 years old and the crossovers have not been touched on any of these. 

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I had to read a couple of times Dave, but I think I know what you are saying now.

 

You like the industrial La Scala with the KP-480 sub with the 18" drivers, and you think you've found "the" setup.  What type of sound are you getting out of this combo, more punch, a fuller sound, more accurate sound?

 

Does the LSI Type AA have different values or XO points than the standard Type AA?

 

I have heard others say they like the sound of the LSI, @jimjimbo I think likes the LSI sound.  What I've not heard is the part about adding a pro sub with a large 18" driver.  I've heard others say they like horn driven subs, but not the direct radiators.  And you say the passive is not in your KP-480?

 

I tend to like dynamic punchy sound, but I also value an accurate sound.  I'm glad you found a combination of sub and speakers that produce the sound that is "you."

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wvu80,

  "more punch, a fuller sound, more accurate sound" yes to all. The LSI has K43 woofers where the LS has K33 and yes it makes a difference in the quality of the sound. The LSI was with original crossover components was clearly better than any of the other La Scalas and one of them which also had an AA crossover had been freshly recapped with Crite's supplied caps when I bought it. As far as I know there is no difference in the crossovers. The only difference besides cabinet finish that I know of is the woofer.

 

 On the KP 480. I have yet to find a picture like the one I have. It has four 4" round ports cut into the motorboard, one at each corner with tubes fixed to the back side of the ports going back to within 1" of the back side and no passive radiator or slot cut in the bottom face like others I see. I can't find specs for that exact cabinet either but I assume all the KP 480s had to be very close.

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8 minutes ago, Dave A said:

wvu80,

  "more punch, a fuller sound, more accurate sound" yes to all. The LSI has K43 woofers where the LS has K33 and yes it makes a difference in the quality of the sound.

That may be true with the LaScala bass bin but not so much with the MWM bass bin. Just not as good a match as with the LaScala bin design I guess.  The MWM bin the k 33 went a little lower and overall had a better sound over the K43. 

I know, completely different design, but it seems to be true with that design, just a better fit. I did keep the K 43 for the outside MWM'S just because I had them, and if someone went crazy with the volume it would help, it has split LaScala tops on each bass bin with new AA crossovers. It's like a LaScala with alot of bass for outside, it's a good sound really.

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2 hours ago, Dave A said:

I may very well change the caps out later this year as I have been advised this to will make a difference.

I had the very old AA crossover's in the yard speakers I was talking about, and then someone volunteered to changed the caps out for me, same design just new caps. I thought the old ones were sounding ok until I swapped them for the new caps, I was shocked at the difference, it was a bigger difference than I could have ever hoped for. Better bass, midrange and highs, clearer and more defined, overall  a huge difference. 

 

I really never expected such a change, the old caps must have been really off. You really need to try this and I hope you experience the same changes I heard.

 

You need to try what Mr Albright said, they will sound great outside. Glad your liking what your hearing. 

 

 

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There is no such thing as a "keeper"...just temporary relief from the illness.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, eth2 said:

There is no such thing as a "keeper"...just temporary relief from the illness.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 

Isn't that the truth! 

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On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:24 PM, richieb said:

 

 ---- 800 watt amps, LaScallas?? That just might be a slight overkill! But only by 795 watts or so -- 

 

Not at all.  I'm driving my 510 JubScala IIs with 2000 watts.  That's bi-amped with a pair of dual-mono amps, with 500 watts per channel.  The bass amp makes available 500 watts for each woofer, and the treble amp makes available 500 watts to each tweeter.

 

Naturally, the volume is always set pretty low, but even then, the headroom makes everything sound more realistic, especially drums.  However, on the rare occasions when I do turn it up extra loud for a short period (I live in a condo), it's actually a bit scary.  The louder sound is not scary, it's the way the sound suddenly starts hitting your chest very physically, like things just got real!  It's impressive, but you wouldn't want to leave it that loud for long.

 

I've had no noise complaints so far, but I only turn it up extra loud in the afternoon, when it's likely that the neighbours are all at work.

 

As well as the high power, those premium power amps also present much more detail and clarity than the AVR amp.  When the second one arrived, I temporarily hooked it up to drive the Heresy IIs I was using for side surround at the time.  The improvement over the sound when they were powered by the 2005 RX-V750 I was using at the time was really obvious.  I wouldn't mind getting a third Yamaha MX-D1 to drive the side surround La Scalas, because the improvement would be impossible to miss.

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Islander you are so right. Got around to finally hooking up the Peavey  and the improvement over using the Onkyo receiver by itself is significant. I was going to sell all the pro amplifier stuff but I believe I will be keeping the Peavey. Changed the realism of the drums as you say and the detail of the two channels and all the instruments IS much better.  Of course now 30 on the Onkyo beats what 45 or 50 used to produce.

  I am feeding the Peavey with output from the Onkyo. Is this OK to do or is there a better way?

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