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Schu

Othorn...

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Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with Othorn tapped subwoofer designs?

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I’ve heard a pair with the ipal b&c woofers with a 12kw speaker power amp on them. They were absolutely insane. Only time I’ve ever been at a demo where i told the guy to turn it down because i actually felt like my ears were going to rupture or something. 

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I have an Othorn with the original B&C driver that it was designed for....it's been so long I've forgotten the model number.

 

While the extreme output capabilities of this sub are undoubtedly impressive, it's the low signal level performance that has me intrigued. It doesn't sound like an SPL Monster at normal listening levels....and that's a good thing. I had given up on tapped horns until I saw the measurements of the Othorn - it doesn't have that characteristic ringing that all other tapped horns have. Being gone in the measurements is one thing, but I wanted to see if it was gone in real life too....which it totally was. The tapped horns have always been impressive form a bang for the buck and SPL perspective, but the quality has always left me lacking.....until the Othorn came around. In the upper octaves (like 40Hz to 80Hz or even up to 150Hz), it is comparable (better in my opinion) to the Khorn/Jubilee/Lascala.....but even better is that it adds an extra octave of depth that the big Klipsch designs don't do. It's totally effortless and unexaggerated - when there's bass in the material, then it's there like you've never heard before. And when it's not there, then it struts along all refined like without introducing any sloppiness.

 

I think some movie buffs and a few dubstep fanatics might feel the 10Hz region is a bit lacking, but I'm not willing to give up audible 20Hz to 80Hz performance in exchange for pressurization of my room. Don't get me wrong, I love to jam out to loud music and make my vision blur from insane SPL (which you can get with the Othorn), but chest crushing loud SPL gets old after a while....so I find myself settling back into more sane listening levels. And it's just reality that you can't hear/perceive ultra low frequency information unless it's loud.

 

All that to say, there is some preference involved, but if terms like fidelity and accuracy end up in your decision criteria, then I don't think you can do better than an Othorn. I also don't want to imply the low frequency performance is lacking either....the dance parties I've held in my basement have been insane, and I've only ever had about 800W available on the amplifier side of things.

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I have had 3 of these clean bass down to 25Hz Claude J has one of my Othron 21's maybe he can add some info .

 

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2 hours ago, DrWho said:

I have an Othorn with the original B&C driver that it was designed for....it's been so long I've forgotten the model number.

 

While the extreme output capabilities of this sub are undoubtedly impressive, it's the low signal level performance that has me intrigued. It doesn't sound like an SPL Monster at normal listening levels....and that's a good thing. I had given up on tapped horns until I saw the measurements of the Othorn - it doesn't have that characteristic ringing that all other tapped horns have. Being gone in the measurements is one thing, but I wanted to see if it was gone in real life too....which it totally was. The tapped horns have always been impressive form a bang for the buck and SPL perspective, but the quality has always left me lacking.....until the Othorn came around. In the upper octaves (like 40Hz to 80Hz or even up to 150Hz), it is comparable (better in my opinion) to the Khorn/Jubilee/Lascala.....but even better is that it adds an extra octave of depth that the big Klipsch designs don't do. It's totally effortless and unexaggerated - when there's bass in the material, then it's there like you've never heard before. And when it's not there, then it struts along all refined like without introducing any sloppiness.

 

I think some movie buffs and a few dubstep fanatics might feel the 10Hz region is a bit lacking, but I'm not willing to give up audible 20Hz to 80Hz performance in exchange for pressurization of my room. Don't get me wrong, I love to jam out to loud music and make my vision blur from insane SPL (which you can get with the Othorn), but chest crushing loud SPL gets old after a while....so I find myself settling back into more sane listening levels. And it's just reality that you can't hear/perceive ultra low frequency information unless it's loud.

 

All that to say, there is some preference involved, but if terms like fidelity and accuracy end up in your decision criteria, then I don't think you can do better than an Othorn. I also don't want to imply the low frequency performance is lacking either....the dance parties I've held in my basement have been insane, and I've only ever had about 800W available on the amplifier side of things.

 

 

Can you further expound on the "ringing" phenomenon you experience with tapped designs?

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Ringing is just a nasty resonance, according to the data bass link provided above it looks like it could possibly be helped by crossing it low enough. This would need to be confirmed by actual testing and i don't have one.

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With regard to port tuned enclosures, ringing is a peaky resonance that can be possibly corrected by lowering or raising the frequency of the tuned port/ports, or attenuated through the use of damping. (like polyfil, etc..)

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In all my research of tapped horns, that is the first time I have heard the "ringing" resonant comment associated with them. 

I have always heard accurate, tight, extended... but not ringing.

 

I hate ringing and beaming as a characteristic, now I'm scared.

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20 hours ago, Schu said:

I hate ringing and beaming as a characteristic, now I'm scared.

I'd trust Drwho's evaluation and not worry about it.  I think Amazon has the driver for about 600.

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On 11/14/2017 at 5:27 PM, Schu said:

In all my research of tapped horns, that is the first time I have heard the "ringing" resonant comment associated with them. 

I have always heard accurate, tight, extended... but not ringing.

 

I hate ringing and beaming as a characteristic, now I'm scared.

I hate ringing and beaming too....I'd rather pick up a ton of distortion than have to deal with ringing, which has often led me to direct radiating bass in the past. However, you get the low distortion without ringing on the Othorn. I was so impressed that it could hold its own against the EV MTL-4 (which is a quad 18" dual opposed configuration), which is probably one of the least resonant bass cabinets I've ever heard. It definitely needs a touch of EQ to get it all the way there, but it's not hard to dial in at all.

 

I'm surprised you haven't come across the ringing in your research because it always shows up in the measurements. I wonder if sometimes people don't listen as critically and are too overjoyed with the insane output at the bottom octave that they don't notice/care about some of these things? Or maybe it's the issue of room acoustics which are far worse than what you'll get out of an EQ'd cabinet, and so maybe it's not mentioned because it's on par with what the room is already doing anyway?

 

My goal wasn't to scare you away from the Othorn, but to mention that it's not like other tapped horns. It's got some special sauce that makes it exceptional in comparison.

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On 12/11/2017 at 10:55 PM, DrWho said:

My goal wasn't to scare you away from the Othorn, but to mention that it's not like other tapped horns. It's got some special sauce that makes it exceptional in comparison.

I own one and it's the most "musical" sub I've ever heard. I think the "sauce" you speak of is mostly the B&C Driver in conjunction with a great design from Ricci. I just did a Hornresp of the OThorn with the new, 21" driver from B&C (4 1/2" Voice coil instead of 6") , which is $200 cheaper than it's older sibling ($500 vs. $700 for the one we have now) and it's even smoother.

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On 11/14/2017 at 12:23 PM, DrWho said:

All that to say, there is some preference involved, but if terms like fidelity and accuracy end up in your decision criteria, then I don't think you can do better than an Othorn. I also don't want to imply the low frequency performance is lacking either....the dance parties I've held in my basement have been insane, and I've only ever had about 800W available on the amplifier side of things.

I concur with this fully. Ricci said "quite a bit of bass outdoors with 500 watts" (but it can handle 4,000 w). Mine is hooked up, front and center, to 1/2 of a Crown K2. I have no idea what power has been used but I'm certain it's never been anywhere near the 800 watts you spoke of in your post. I've never felt the need to get 2.

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On 11/6/2017 at 10:21 PM, Schu said:

Does anyone have any experience, good or bad, with Othorn tapped subwoofer designs?

You can get one built for $1200 from a guy in Tennessee if you use the newer, less expensive, driver from Parts Express..........B&C 21DS115. PM me for his number if interested. You will never need another sub if you use it smack in between your LaScalas.

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:emotion-21:

I am in the middle of something else right now, but I will definitely keep this in mind. the guy I had locally that said he could build anything has gotten sketchy... and I dont want sketchy. he did say he could veneer it, which is an idea I like.

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Every ported design has a 1st port resonance, a frequency which you want to try and cross roughly an octave below or more to avoid.  In designing subs its in the software....many horns have this issue and thus are crossed lower i.e. 80hz 100hz max.  But each design is different.  Sometimes its 500hz and is itrelevant.  

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As a matter of normalcy, I cross my subwoofers as low as possible.

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On 12/25/2017 at 10:08 AM, RoboKlipsch said:

Every ported design has a 1st port resonance, a frequency which you want to try and cross roughly an octave below or more to avoid.  In designing subs its in the software....many horns have this issue and thus are crossed lower i.e. 80hz 100hz max.  But each design is different.  Sometimes its 500hz and is itrelevant.  

Agreed - but there are other ways to cancel out that resonance too....

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