KG4’s Sounding Poor

[69sixpackbee]

Greetings from the new guy!

I recently put my KG4’s in service in my bedroom and I am very disappointed in their sound. I am powering them with a Pioneer SX-1250 and they sound pretty weak. The mids and highs are very defined but the bass is really lacking. I know these have to possess better bass than I am getting. These have never been modded and I plan to re-cap the x-overs in hopes that this is all that is wrong. A little history on these speakers. I purchased them at a local Goodwill for a whole $9.99 each. That is no bull. My wife was shopping there and she sent me a text if these were any good and y’all know the answer to that! These are probably a good solid 8 out of 10. One cab has a water ring stain on the top from some yahoo using it as a coffee table.  

 I definitely see some excursion from the woofs but there is no “punch”. This is a fine receiver so that is not the issue. 

 I guess I will start by rebuilding the crossovers and see where I go from there. Is the Pioneer a suitable receiver for these KG4’s?

 

Thanx!

[Mallette]

Welcome to the madness.

Dave

[Bonzo]

I would first make sure your speakers are in phase. Sounds simple but many of us have accidentally wired our speakers out of phase. In other words, + from the receiver to the + on each speaker and - to the -. If one is reversed, it will wash out the low end. This goes for the individual drivers as well. I would also make sure the drivers and passive radiators have good seal to the cabinet. Good luck tracking down the issue. Oh, the SX-1250 should be able to drive them to concert levels however I don’t recommend that. Is it possible there is an issue with the receiver? Most 1250’s need some work nowadays. 

[Peter P.]

5 hours ago, Bonzo said:

I would first make sure your speakers are in phase.

I agree with Bonzo.

 

And if you want bass, get the speakers off the stands and put them on the floor.

 

Also, your bedroom's dimensions could be the problem, especially if the room is close to square in shape. If possible, try setting up the speakers in a room they formerly resided in, where presumably they sounded good, and see if the bass improves.

 

Report back with the results.

[Frzninvt]

As stated get them on the floor and move the passives away from the wall so they can do their job that and you have them like five feet apart and not even toed in.  Spread them out more and get rid of the flying "V" settings on the equalizer it's not helping any.

[69sixpackbee]

WOW! All great suggestions! Now I know I am at the right place ☺️  This receiver had been completely recapped just a couple of years past. I agree that the room acoustics has the biggest impact on speaker placement but unfortunately, I am stuck within the constraints and their placement. I do have them approximately 8” away from the wall. I will try and “toe” them to see if I can get some different sounds as suggested. The phasing from A to B is definitely correct but that is not to say, as was mentioned, that it is correct inside. These look to be unmolested original cabs but.......  I put the 10 band EQ to try and tweak the sound some more.I am an “old stool” SS gear aficionado and these were always a part of my repertoire. I have an extensive collection of SS gear but, sadly, no tube stuff...I’d have some LaScala’s if I did☺️ . I guess the Flying “V” config on the EQ is due to my affinity to lots of ear splitting rock.

 

 Looks like I am going to dig into these cabs and break out my meter and see what’s what.

 

Thanx all!

Bud

[69sixpackbee]

Would it be advisable to replace the the passives with a powered sub and proper network or would that be not so smart?

Edited September 9, 2018 by 69sixpackbee

[billybob]

From the advice taken you should be good to go with the bass. One thing about those speakers, bass aplenty.

Welcome to the forum!

[Emile]

Nah ... they are horrible speakers.  Will give you double what you paid for them, i.e. $19.98 ea.   just kidding   Used to have KG-4's and thought they were awesome with very good low bass ... actually better then my Forte's (before I made improvements).  Pull the woofers out and check/redo the woofer/crossover connections - possibly bad? And ... don't need a sub with these (in a bedroom).  

 

Cheers, Emile

[69sixpackbee]

I’ll start the forensic process then. It just seems odd that this quality of a speaker would sound so poorly but, then again, they were at a thrift shop. No red flag here...lol. I have a set of vintage ESS speakers with the Heil AMT tweeter and a passive 12” radiator much like these and the bass is just shy of thunderous to say the least. Hopefully the dissection will reveal something. I had a friend many years ago who had a Marantz 4400 with a pair of Klipschorns for the front speakers and I remember how it sounded. One of the best I had ever encountered. The presence and sound stage was awe inspiring. I have a 4400 myself but it is waiting for the to finish the recap process. I had it hooked up to four big CV’s and through the sq2b decoder playing some vintage R to R and it would knock pictures off of the wall! My wife put the kibosh on that stunt real quick 😡. 

 

Someday maybe I’ll have some “Chorns” too 

[Oicu812]

On 9/9/2018 at 2:03 PM, 69sixpackbee said:

I’ll start the forensic process then. It just seems odd that this quality of a speaker would sound so poorly but, then again, they were at a thrift shop. No red flag here...lol. I have a set of vintage ESS speakers with the Heil AMT tweeter and a passive 12” radiator much like these and the bass is just shy of thunderous to say the least. Hopefully the dissection will reveal something. I had a friend many years ago who had a Marantz 4400 with a pair of Klipschorns for the front speakers and I remember how it sounded. One of the best I had ever encountered. The presence and sound stage was awe inspiring. I have a 4400 myself but it is waiting for the to finish the recap process. I had it hooked up to four big CV’s and through the sq2b decoder playing some vintage R to R and it would knock pictures off of the wall! My wife put the kibosh on that stunt real quick 😡. 

 

Someday maybe I’ll have some “Chorns” too 

 

One thing that I did to help with the bass out of KG4's, was to create a sort of "horn loaded" shape utilizing other pieces of furniture arranged around the speakers.

 

What I mean by this, is to create a U shaped space to place these in, by creatively arranging furniture around them that I could put against the walls.  I found that the speakers liked to be 6 - 8 inches off the wall.  I then created the same spacing on both the left and the right with a highboy chest in the center with a bookshelf completing the U on one side, and a decorative chest on the other side (which holds the electronics).  This really boosted the bass in my room, by accentuating the output of the passive radiators in the back of the speakers.  There is all the thump you would need available from the KG4's.  It just takes a little bit of experimentation to wring all you can  out of them.

 

Another Mopar fan here as well...

[JohnA]

The caps are NOT it.  Bass is normally a room issue.  Caps that need replacement cause the mids and highs to be dull, recessed and muffled.  They should NOT be off the floor, as Frzn said bypass the EQ.  Place them face to face and play the FM.  Switch from mono to stereo.  If mono has less bass, reverse one set of speaker wires.  Also inspect the woofers and passive radiator for cracks in the cones and surrounds that would allow a leak.  Leaks (from the cabinet, too) need to be fixed as they will affect the bass output.