Jeff Matthews Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Actually yes. And I don't buy the argument either. But even a cursory glance at out history shows we will look the other way from these things if we like them for other "more important" reasons, and come down hard about them if they are not in our sphere of influence. If you want to deny the hypocrisy on that basis, then it is simply a willful conscious decision on your part. You would be mistaken to suggest anyone could deny our own historical (and even current) transgressions. This has nothing to do with denial vs. confessions. The fact that we can do the right thing is plenty of impetus to do it. However, it will not come without serious risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 It always does, in one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 8 minutes ago, oldtimer said: It always does, in one way or another. Yes. Seriously, though, I have been giving short shrift to occasional broaches of the topic of China's human rights violations. Getting up to speed on the issues around the Xinjiang "re-education" centers was quite eye-opening. The only difference between them and the WWII concentration camps is, at the moment, there appears to be no indication of mass exterminations. The captivity of hundreds of thousands (up to maybe a million) without due process - among the other authoritarian crackdowns - is concerning. It's one thing when tens of thousands are losing their freedom and lives as a result of great regional instability. It's awfully hard to police and counter-police the ME, for example. But in China, there are no counter-police. It's a stable, one-party regime and getting worse and worse. Their culture has these priorities: 1. Party 2. Laws 3. People You could sarcastically say the same about us, but really, our culture does elevate laws over party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: Yes, and And that has been going on by both parties, so stop making this and argument of D vs R. The subject is China. Be a big boy and get behind the powers that be that is taking on China issues that are wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 8, 2018 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2018 20 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said: I understand. I never wanted this to become a question of whether somebody deserves cudos or not. It's too bad that groupthink compels people to this invariable end in every news topic which is worthy of serious consideration. Why do you suppose that is? A lack of knowledge on the issue? Living in an echo chamber and the need to echo someone else? When one person does something out of bounds it is human nature to also step out of bounds? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: And that has been going on by both parties, so stop making this and argument of D vs R. The subject is China. Be a big boy and get behind the powers that be that is taking on China issues that are wrong. No, the subject is money. And guess who wants more? Daddy apparently didn't provide quite enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 8, 2018 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: And that has been going on by both parties, so stop making this and argument of D vs R. The subject is China. Couldn't have said it better myself. 6 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: Be a big boy and get behind the powers that be that is taking on China issues that are wrong Not sure what you mean by this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, oldtimer said: That guy you mention has a daughter who made all of her products there and elsewhere besides the USA. So his daughter hates him more than you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 if it were that stable there would not be what you describe. The countryside has been in upheaval, forcing people to migrate to cities looking for what turns out to be crappy working conditions for crappy pay which means living in crappy conditions. Remember camps like these from the Cultural Revolution ? NK has been doing and does the same thing. A very sincere form of flattery, eh? Despotic authoritarian regimes all follow the same pattern. The rulers fear the people for good reason, because they know that's how they got theirs in the first place. Massive oppression helps them sleep better at night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Just now, dwilawyer said: Why do you suppose that is? A lack of knowledge on the issue? Living in an echo chamber and the need to echo someone else? When one person does something out of bounds it is human nature to also step out of bounds? I think in many ways it has 2 purposes: 1. Cover for ignorance, and 2. A clear path when faced with coming to a Y in the road - i.e., I don't know what to do; what are people I like doing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: So his daughter hates him more than you. Where did I say anything about hating anyone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: Not sure what you mean by this. To stop making it a 'I hate this guy no matter what" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, oldtimer said: if it were that stable there would not be what you describe. The people are unarmed. There is one party. The news is controlled by the party. Dissent is not tolerated. Due process is not provided. Chinese citizens are putting up virtually no resistance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, dwilawyer said: Couldn't have said it better myself. Not sure what you mean by this. It means bullying and intimidation, the usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Let's stay on topic. I know somebody else will come along and get my thread locked - but for now, I hope it's not you guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, oldtimer said: Where did I say anything about hating anyone? So you hate everyone equally. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Just now, Jeff Matthews said: The people are unarmed. There is one party. The news is controlled by the party. Dissent is not tolerated. Due process is not provided. Chinese citizens are putting up virtually no resistance. Which came first? You are assuming no resistance yet insist there is dissent that is not tolerated. It can't be both. How about that tank in the square moment? Don't you think that scared the bejeesus out of the party elite? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said: 😉 I have no idea what that means, and no idea where the subject of hate surfaced from you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Just now, oldtimer said: Which came first? You are assuming no resistance yet insist there is dissent that is not tolerated. It can't be both. How about that tank in the square moment? Don't you think that scared the bejeesus out of the party elite? I understand your point, but that's kind of quibbling. They have (reportedly) up to a million people being held in concentration camps. "Resistance" is a relative term. At the moment, it is woefully inadequate and a multitude of innocents are facing severe oppression. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofers and Tweeters Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, jimjimbo said: It means bullying and intimidation, the usual. Unlike what everyone has seen from the losing party since the election and again with the latest latest justice appointee? The riots in the streets and such. Stop trying to get this thread locked. It's about China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.