Strong Rhetoric on China

[Woofers and Tweeters]

2 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

You might be right.  I guess a religious person would say to that, "God works in mysterious ways."  An agnostic might say, "Whatever it takes."

I support the ones in office... for the most part. At the same time, I watch the linked video and hear the mention of religious and economic suppression while he reads the prompters. Mostly bs that someone else wrote. We are in a trade war, talk about that. I hate that people are suffering. In time, it will change, but not because of an outside force.  

[Travis In Austin]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I agree with you.  The salient question is whether a good trade deal will be enough for us to punt the human rights issues.  If not, how far will we take it?  In a global society (which we now are), China has to control its citizens living abroad if it is to maintain is stronghold at home.  The problem with that is it cuts sharply into international sovereignty.  As of late, China has be paying off nations to ignore the issues.  

There are two books that are an essential read if zomeone who is really interested in this issue:

1.  The China Challenge: Shaping the Choices of a Rising Power, by Thomas Christiansen; and 

2.  Meeting China Halfway: How to Defuse the Emerging U.S.-China Rivalry by Lyle Goldstein.

 

(Goldstein is aquatance, he is a professor at the Naval War College).

 

Christiansen is a professor at Princeton and former Asst. Secretary of State, over Chi a.

 

To stay up on it, in more real time, Foreign Policy and the National Interest have been covering this in depth for at least the last four years.

[Travis In Austin]

43 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

Unlike what everyone has seen from the losing party since the election and again with the latest latest justice appointee? The riots in the streets and such. Stop trying to get this thread locked. It's about China.  

Please get on track, or get out, I think that is what OP is saying 4 or 5 posts ago.

 

I'm not going lock the thread, but I will lock out those who can't help themselves.

 

 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

1 minute ago, dwilawyer said:

Please get on track,

I did not bring that up nor was I the problem.

[Jeff Matthews]

1 minute ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

3 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Please get on track,

I did not bring that up

But you made sure to get the last word.  It's that insatiable urge to have the last word that perpetuates the problem.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

13 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

There are two books that are an essential read if zomeone who is really interested in this issue:

Thanks for those.

[Travis In Austin]

11 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

In time, it will change, but not because of an outside force.  

Why will it change?  Who will it change.

 

I think the changes the West sees, going back 45.years, are the result of outside influences, either pressures or leading with a carrot. 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

Just now, Jeff Matthews said:

But you made sure to get the last word.

I thought it was a conversation and didn’t know that anyone was seeking the ‘last word.’ I was only responding to a quote. 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

2 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

I think the changes the West sees, going back 45.years, are the result of outside influences, either pressures or leading with a carrot.

I agree. It is sad that we don't learn for what hasn't worked. 

[Jeff Matthews]

1 minute ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

I thought it was a conversation and didn’t know that anyone was seeking the ‘last word.’ I was only responding to a quote. 

I'm not going to belabor it.  It just looked that way to me, but maybe not.

[Travis In Austin]

3 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

I did not bring that up nor was I the problem.

You didn't say this:

 

"Unlike what everyone has seen from the losing party since the election and again with the latest latest justice appointee?"

 

If that wasn't you I apologize. 

 

if it was, you are way off track.

 

Saying "the issue is China" over and over doesn't get you off the hook.  You seem to want to continue  referencing off topic current events relating to the current administration.

[Woofers and Tweeters]

4 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Why will it change?  Who will it change.

How many countries has the US tried to "liberate" and how many times has that worked?

[Jeff Matthews]

1 minute ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

5 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

I think the changes the West sees, going back 45.years, are the result of outside influences, either pressures or leading with a carrot.

I agree. It is sad that we don't learn for what hasn't worked. 

Not quite sure what you two mean by that.  In WWII, we were allies.  China actually suspended its own civil war to join the allies against Japan.  After the war ended, they resumed their civil war.  The communists won.  The capitalists fled to Taiwan.  

[wvu80]

4 hours ago, jjptkd said:

China has not played fair for 30 plus years we have been trading with them they are and should be the main concern for the US and have been for quite awhile. They have been trying to undermine us any which way they can by either stealing trade / military / tech secrets, building massive military compounds in south China sea or trying to replace the petro dollar lots have been going on under our noses and for some reason it never or rarely gets reported.

 

Well stated.

 

Have your secretary type it up and I'll sign it. 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

1 minute ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I'm not going to belabor it.  It just looked that way to me, but maybe not.

I meant noting by it and was only trying to defend myself. Though the topic is drifting from China to history and chit, it was inflicted by both parties. I truly want to keep the D&R out of it as they are both to blame.

[Travis In Austin]

1 minute ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

How many countries has the US tried to "liberate" and how many times has that worked?

That has nothing to do with this topic.

 

The US isn't going to "liberate China" this isn't Grenada.  We know this very well from the Korean War/Conflict.

 

We don't even care about their political system, but should we?

 

We are running a 375 billion a year trade deficit with them.

 

How do you make a dent in that?

[Woofers and Tweeters]

4 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Not quite sure what you two mean by that.  In WWII, we were allies.  China actually suspended its own civil war to join the allies against Japan.

Why did Japan bomb Pearl Harbor? (hint) What country was supplying arms and training to China, a country at war with Japan? Also, what country's government was trying to get its voters to support getting involved in WWII, but couldn't until after PH? 

[Woofers and Tweeters]

Just now, dwilawyer said:

How do you make a dent in that?

How many times was suppression of some sort mentioned in the video?

[Jeff Matthews]

Just now, dwilawyer said:

We are running a 375 billion a year trade deficit with them.

 

How do you make a dent in that?

Given the size of our economy, while that sum is large, I'd consider it a mere tithe if that's the cost of restoring human rights there.

[Jeff Matthews]

8 minutes ago, Woofers and Tweeters said:

Why did Japan bomb Pearl Harbor? (hint) What country was supplying arms and training to China, a country at war with Japan? Also, what country's government was trying to get its voters to support getting involved in WWII, but couldn't until after PH? 

That's not really on point.  This is about China's internal affairs.  It is their system - not ours or Japan's.  It is about their version of communism.  You might get some insight on their leadership philosophy by looking into some documentaries on China's Cultural Revolution from 1949 - 1976.  It was billed as a necessary evil toward achieving a "pure" communism, as opposed to the "revisionist" form of communism they accused the Soviet Union of having.