Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Thaddeus Smith said: Sound is objective and measurable. "Good sound" is entirely subjective. Enjoying music is subjective. Listening to music is, or at least should be, an emotional experience. The reproduction of recorded music, on the other hand, is a wholly reductive affair. It's a fact. PWK would tell you as much. I can't help but notice the subjectivist contingent hold on to their unsubstantiated beliefs with stubborn ferocity, the epitome of being close-minded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Deang said: Well, that's the point -- sharing impressions, which usually goes beyond SQ. Common sense should tell you that two things built using different parts, different topologies, and different measurements - will not sound the same. Ever notice how there is nothing common about common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 1 minute ago, babadono said: Ever notice how there is nothing common about common sense. That's because postmodern relativism has become more common than reason and logic. You have an opinion about A/C cords without any empirical support whatsoever? Well that's somehow become just as "valid" as a reductive explanation with empirical support, at least in modern audiophilia. It's good for commerce, after all. To the beginners: modern audio nuttery offers an insightful glimpse into the prevailing epistemological framework that gullible shoppers adopt. Don't make yourself an easy mark for the sheisters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I have enjoyed some of this banter going back and forth about listening tests. I don't know if this is the appropriate thread for a thorough discussion of it though. I think I'll start a new thread. I would love have you guys learn me how to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: Remember when your uncle had an expensive stereo and you drooled over it? Not much of that happening now. A nice stereo is not the status symbol it used to be. And a LOT of kids aren't in a hurry to get a DL when they are old enough. I couldn't wait to get out there and drive. Now some kids aren't even bothering until their 20s. That was unheard of when I was a teenager. Good observations but when it comes to both transportation and audio there have been TREMENDOUS leaps in both and "keeping up with the jones," is easier on a budget nowadays. 2 hours ago, Shakeydeal said: So at the risk of sounding like an old fart, things ain't what they used to be. Especially when it comes to niche hobbies. I'm not sure there will be enough interest in the next 20-30 years to keep audio manufacturers alive. And don't get me started on autonomous vehicles. A story for another day.......... The 2 channel hobby will always be there and benefit from the gains audio is making in the Home Theater market. An upper-end AVR costs 2/3s less than they did 10 years ago and the technology has come down to lower end models. Before, folks judged equipment by how much it weighed--Now folks should be looking at does the power supply cover the needs of their speakers and choose a preamp that does what they want it to. I contend most beginners to advanced are happy with the choice of AVR as I saw on a recent poll on here and those that like their separates have every right to be happy as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, babadono said: I have enjoyed some of this banter going back and forth about listening tests. I don't know if this is the appropriate thread for a thorough discussion of it though. I think I'll start a new thread. I would love have you guys learn me how to listen. Ha! If you are really interested in the subject use the SEARCH function--You will find a considerable number of threads discussing it and maybe even one that hasn't been locked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 1 hour ago, ODS123 said: I have driven my Cornwall III's w/ an Onkyo TX-NR1030 AVR for weeks while my Mac was being serviced. It sounded awesome... I am powering my garage Klipschorns with an Onkyo TX-NR AVR because I want a network receiver out there for streaming internet music. It sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I won't be satisfied until you meter readers are all using the shit you claim sounds as good as everything else. Let me see those awesome DBT inspired systems! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Westcoastdrums said: I think in order the keep thd industry alive, those manufacturers that can adapt will remain. They already have--It's called investing in the Home Theater Market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 Well there you have it. Overwhelming support for onkyo AVRs. What model in particular are we speaking of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, ODS123 said: Remember, at the start of this I referenced the $10,000 reward that was offered by Richard Clark to any golden-eared audiophile who could reliably differentiate b/w two amplifiers, provided they were engineered to be linear and they weren't driven into clipping. ..No one claimed the money. And you can be quite sure that everyone who took this test felt the same way as many here: "of course, i can tell a difference!" http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/ I already addressed that lunacy. I guess you weren't paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I am aware of this thing called home theater. It has been alive and well for let's see..... At Least 16 years I can vouch for. Especially when I worked for the good guys and received excellent commission from selling the gear and everyone wanted it. Thanks for the insight though. I wouldn't have had a clue HT existed otherwise. It doesn't interest me. I am speaking specifically of the hifI two channel market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: 1 hour ago, ODS123 said: I have driven my Cornwall III's w/ an Onkyo TX-NR1030 AVR for weeks while my Mac was being serviced. It sounded awesome... I am powering my garage Klipschorns with an Onkyo TX-NR AVR because I want a network receiver out there for streaming internet music. It sounds great. Fwiw, I have used upper end Denons (AVR-4802r/4906/4311ci) and have had great experience as well with the HT listed below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Westcoastdrums said: I am speaking specifically of the hifI two channel market. Sure, but the point is I wouldn't be worried about it. At the very least there will always be vintage gear out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEH Synergy Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I guess I will be the ONE on here that isn't really interested In used vintage gear and the hassle of restoring it when newer Excellent sounding gear for reasonable prices can be had. I don't knock it be any means as I know very little about it. I have seen the trend of priced being driven up substantially in that category as well by casual observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Westcoastdrums said: Well there you have it. Overwhelming support for onkyo AVRs. What model in particular are we speaking of? It is a TX-NR 1007. I want to use my Denon out there, but my friend who borrowed that AVR to try its "features" loves the sound and seems to want to keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornukopia Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 One of the "features" my friend wanted to experience is AIRPLAY, using his I-Phone as the portable source. Some beginners just want their pleasant sounding music to be convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Deang said: I won't be satisfied until you meter readers are all using the shit you claim sounds as good as everything else. Let me see those awesome DBT inspired systems! You're shifting the burden of proof. It's those who claim to hear audible improvements from aftermarket A/C cords, etc. that need to support their claims, not the other way around. But since you asked so nicely (ha!), I have participated in a carefully level matched comparison to a wickedly expensive Pass Labs amp against my NADs (both an old 2100 and a slightly newer C372), and neither myself nor anyone else could identify a difference, much less choose a preference. I also have amps by ATI and Yamaha. And I have a soft spot for SE types, and have both SEP and an ACA in the quiver. Those DO sound different, and have corresponding differences in various measurements (e.g. amount and type of distortion, higher output impedance, etc.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I think it's absurd to claim no difference, and then spend 10x more money than you have to - because hey - "I really like those meters". I was focused on components, not wire and power cords. The NAD stuff has always sounded good. I don't doubt your claim one bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeHiFiNut Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 And thus the discussion goes in the usual (unfortunate) direction....."Less fillung, tastes great". My advice to beginners, as previously stated..... Beginners should listen to lots of gear in a variety of settings. Gain experience. Learn what you like. Trust your own ears. Don't be influenced by other folks telling you what you should, or should not, hear. Your ears, your brain, your connection to the music. Assemble whatever system best connects you to the music. Buy lots of the music you love. Enjoy this wonderful hobby for many years. Just my opinion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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