HDBRbuilder Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Just when did the Heresy go to a plastic horn, anyway? They were still aluminum alloy when I left in late September of 83...and the changeover to the Heresy II didn't occur until 85. Klipsch never made changes to the entire line at the same time...the changes occurred when they ran out of existing stocks of parts, or when they made a radical cabinet design change, generally, such as the change to the Heresy II in 85. It seems strange to me that they would go to the plastic horn lens just a year before changeing to a front-mounted horn lens on the Heresy...since that would require slight horn flange changes to accomodate the front mounting so soon after the change. That wasn't the normal routine when I worked there. Before I left the engineers were already playing around with the front mounted thing that led to the Heresy II, and I even saw them with some plastic midhorns...but there was a HUGE stock of metal horns around for the Heresys...so I wonder when the change actually occurred!! If it occurred in 84, it wasn't at the beginning of the year, that's for sure!! The company would never waste that many metal horns...they would use them up, first!! The Heresy II was still in development stage when I left, and that was at the beginning of the "fall rush" which lasted into December, generally. It would seem to me that if they were planning on the change for the Heresy to occur in January, then , they would already have been getting in those plastic horn lenses before I left...and the stockpile of the metal ones would not have been so high. That isn't necessarily the case for Cornwalls, though...since the Heresy was produced at around 300-500 per day back then, whereas the Cornwall was produced at a rate of around 40 a week in a high demand year for them!! The Heresy is the speaker that built Klipsch, the company!!...the little high volume profit maker that gave the company its capital foundation! Over 4 times as many Heresys went out the door than all the other models combined!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 dean, the only meaningful upgrade I've seen for Heresy's involves the mid-range being a little hot. It's the same driver as a KHorn (so is the tweeter) so with the smaller woofer some have complained the midrange was overwhelming the bottom. The Heresy has the t23 transformer, I believe someone on here has detailed a change involving moving the squawker tap on the transformer to cut the squawker output a few db, even things up a little. I recall it's from tap 3 to tap 2. I did this to mine, but I typically listen to these at very low volume, I think this mod helps more at higher volumes. HDBR is right, AFAIK, about the adding supposedly better woofers. It is an air suspension box, cone excursion is going to be limited. On my 77 models the woofer cone doesn't move (excurse?) much even at high volumes. If I were going to do anything to mine it would probably involve better sealing of the boxes. Gaskets or RTV mounting the horns and woofer, weatherstrip or something on the backs. Not very glamorous, for sure. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flappycars Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Hey yo guys, I have had both Heresy 1 and Heresy 2 speakers. I find the 1's far better. Tighter more revealing on the midband, better balanced and they do not ring! Absolutely not! I am amazed at how different they sound and how nobody else has mentioned this. I had a good play with the mk2 Heresy and Chorus but ended up with the Chorus. Now I really fancy a pair of Khorns, but I have never heard a pair. I have heard the La Scala. Truly wonderful. One day I will have the K Horns. Only question is, should I do it sooner or later? Can anybody tell me the difference in the sound between Chorus 1 and K Horn? Please, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Flappycars... There simply ISN'T any comparison between the k-horn and the Chorus...or anything else the company has made(except in the midrange and tweeters of the Heritage line)...the k-horn simply eats the lunch of anything else in the line...past OR present!! At least until the Jubilee finally rears its home version head!! You REALLY need to hear a pair of k-horns properly set-up...you will see what I mean!! Comparing the K-horn to a Chorus model is akin to comparing a fine old Rolls Silver Ghost to a Fine old Jaguar sedan...NOT like comparing that same Rolls to a Bentley of the same era...if you get my drift! Well...if it is any consolation, comparing the sound of the mid-1977 and earlier flush-front Heresy decorator model to any of them that weren't of that cabinet design will also show up some HEARD differences, especially over time...the flush front cabinet is a tighter, stronger cabinet with no possibilities of air leaks at the motorboard if it was properly assembled!! The only place it can "leak" is around its back's edges, and, again, that is determined by its proper build and whether the caulk in the corners of the glue blocks back there has deteriorated over time and needs replacing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Mobile I am taking your full advise on all regarding my system! Right now im having work related problems, i have 28 hours next week, so im looking for work, Quiznos i guess finally wore out! Happy holidays to us! On my K-horns, im ganna try 1 more mod, im ganna cut a triangle bottom, to match the top section, then im ganna build a back, corner for them, and seal the seams, so ill have a corner like back, built on to the Klipschorns, right now, im listening to the Chorus, more than the K-horns! I also might build a box behind my tall fronts, to close them in! Put tops on these! But soon, once again i hope to upgrade my electronics! Yea that phase linear is still here, and the pioneer sx 950, yea i know! The MV-52 also might need tubes soon, i see a white inside the tubes on warmup! Nothing flashing, just a white color! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 HDBRbuilder My Heresy 1s are 1985 vintage and have the plastic horns not sure if this helps but I think all 1985 versions had plastic rather than Metal. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 I hope mine are plastic. Plastic good. Metal bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Dean...hell, you haven't even HEARD the difference between plastic and metal horns in Heresys yet...how can you even say that? I personally PREFER the metal horns lenses in Heresys OVER the plastic ones...and in 25 years of listening to mine( 25 years this coming January), I have NEVER experienced any damned ringing through them!! Not once!! And I have had them hooked up to a wide variety of sources besides what I have at home over all of that time, too...with power ratings from 20 WPC to 200 wpc!!...playing different types of music from different sources over the years, too! The Heresy is the MOST forgiving of all the Heritage line for source equipment, material, and amplification, too!! Those plastic horn lenses lost something, IMHO...I have heard them many times!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 That's not really true. I heard Hesesys at Carlin Audio here in Dayton at least a dozen times through the late 70's and early 80's. Hell, I just always figured that tin can midrange sound was because of the metal lenses. When I first listened to RB5's, it was the complete absence of this quality that drew me to them. Of course, the only thing I've ever heard Heresys with is Yamaha equipment. K-horns on old Crown stuff, and Scalas on Lord know what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 The change to plastic squawker horns occured with the change away from the K-55-V driver. The K-53-K driver required a different horn because it had a flange mount instead of a threaded mount. Hence the plastic K-701 horn. Don't recall what the ones built with the K-52-H used. Xmax on early Heresy woofers is something like 2.5mm. That is only 1/10 inch. Not much to see even at full volume. If you crank them, you can definitely reach xmax. On the later ones, xmax is something like 4mm. Replacing the woofer on the early ones can let you go low louder. IMHO better sealing won't make an audible difference. The Heresy box is not that leaky to start with. Klipsch seems to have wavered some on the need for better sealing. My 1972 models have a gasket between the squawker horn and motor board. I have earlier and later models that don't. If you do seal it up tight, remember to leave a pin hole size leak to allow the inside to equalize to changes in atmospheric pressure so the woofer cone can return to its normal at rest position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Well...to be quite honest, I have never heard any of the Heritage speakers sound good at a dealer listening room...not nearly as good as they sound PROPERLY set up with equipment that the Heritage line LIKES in a home environment where they have been properly placed!! And I have heard them in lots of dealer listening rooms over the years!! Hell, they even sounded better on the concrete slab at the plant than in those showrooms, that I have heard them in!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 You got me there. That's really true about most show rooms. Carlin Audio is a nice store though. It's not like what many of you might be accustomed to. Imagine going into a store and seeing Klipsch RF7's hooked up to about $20,000 worth of electronics. The first time I heard the 7's I almost passed out from hyperventilating. I bought them on the spot. Now...THAT'S how you sell speakers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 My heresies from '81 do not ring in the midrange or have a tin can sound to them at all. Even though I have a lowly yamaha reciever the heresies sound quite good. For the time being I am quite happy with the way they sound and plan to upgrade amps(likely in the distant future) and source equipment before trying any mods on these babies. I am planning on building stands for them though, any thoughts on designs for this sort of thing? They already have the short riser on the bottom which I will try to incorporate into my plans. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 Interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do for me. HD's comment that the Heresy is the most forgiving of the breed -- is something I am hanging on to for now:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I just spend a couple of days listening to some friend's gears, NHT's 2.5, Mirage M3si, Margules A1.2 and B&W 602. Was a nice weekend as you might guess... Anyway, today I spent the entire morning listening carefuly the same recordings on my 'ol Heresy's. I confirm it. They sound nothing short of amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 I just picked up a pr of '83 Heresys and they sound pretty good considering their size. After trying them in several positions, I placed them on top of a pr of Cornwalls so the woofers were slightly above ear-level, pointed just outside of my ears. The soundstage opened up considerably and the speakers seemed more coherent with an all-round better sound. Do these speakers benefit from higher than normal placement? Anyone had a similar experience or just the opposite? Also, anyone tried putting a layer of batting in the cabinet and if so, did you percieve lower bass frequencies or did it just become flabby? Thanks, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 JBryan, I have them with the mid horn at ear level (the bass suffer, of course, but I coudln't care less, because in my system I handle the bass with my "little" sub ), this is their best possition, at least in my room. And I spent several months looking for the best possible imaging, soundstage and percussive characteristics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Too much fun to not participate - I have two pair of heresy, Is and IIs in the same theater/music room. Quite honestly the ringing is not happening in the older ones (hasn't for twenty years), so I don't have a metal vs. plastic horn problem issue. My ear says that the II is slightly more 'refined' (this means to me that the mids are fuller at lower volumes) in the stuff that goes through the Sqwauker and has a better bass fill/sound. Quite truthfully, I had to listen long and hard to come up with that, with the woofer being the most noticable. In todays world, that lack of low frequencies sends us in search of a good sub. A good sub negates the woofer differences. Manuel - Over the years I continue to arrive at the top of the Heresy positioned around 8 feet above the floor with a slight angle to the listening area. Not sure why, but it is always the best sound for me (and I have moved them at least as often as my wife , bless her heart, has moved the furniture). Nowadays with a good sub fill it mitigates any real loss of bass from this mounting position. What do I think? Well, spend around $600 bucks for a good sub (that's winking at SVS) and put them with your Heresy (either I or II)8' up angled down, SPL meter and set your listening position and put on your favorite album/CD (preferably DSOM for the rockers and recordings of the St. Louis or Philadelphia Philharmonics - these guys seem to have the best recording techniques- for the classics). If you like the sound of horns, I promise you will have a sound that 'cannot' be beat by any combination of commercial speakers ( I always exclude DIY - real bargains can be made there) within $300. If you exclude Cornwalls, the range gets closer to $750 - $1000. To me that is a truely remarkable thing. Halleluhah and Amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted November 25, 2002 Share Posted November 25, 2002 Invidiosulus, I posted a thing about Heresy stands in the "updating older speakers" section a few weeks ago...you may want to check that out for ideas. JBryan, Now that you have your Heresys on top of your Cornwalls, flip the Heresys upside down and give that a try...you may be even MORE pleasantly surprised at the result!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 25, 2002 Author Share Posted November 25, 2002 I just tried to post a new topic. It won't let me. Keeps coming back with: Detailed error information: Optional feature not implemented No matter what I do, or how I try -- I get the error. Can anyone else start a new topic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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