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If you use a toslink to mini-toslink cable with a chromecast audio, you can stream up to 96k/24bit hi-res files. In other words, the 3.5mm out on the chromecast doubles as a fiber optic digital out. At 100% volume on the chromecast the stream is bit-perfect. Any streaming app that you can cast from will work, from your tablet, phone, or computer. The chromecast audio toslink out will connect to any receiver/DAC that has a toslink input.

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On 8/29/2020 at 2:46 AM, Chris A said:

The above is part of the issue with the track in question, but especially the judgments of the person who did the mastering and the musician that accepted his work.  The track of which you speak (Sail Away) has a dynamic range rating of 9 (dB).  (I don't own a copy of track.)  Apparently the mastering person pushed the loudness of the track too far and couldn't hear the effects of that loudness level on the loudspeakers and room shown above...or he could hear the effects but chose to make it that loud anyway.  There is an unknown amount of compression and limiting used in this track, probably well over 10 dB.

 

The Sarah McLachlan track (Angel) has a dynamic range rating of 12 (dB), i.e., 3 dB higher.  I own a copy of this track from the album Surfacing.  While the album isn't terrible, it does have ~3 dB of clipping average across the album.  The particular track that you identify (Angel) has a solo piano and female voice with an electric bass accompaniment that was overdubbed after the voice and piano were recorded.  This track isn't particularly hi-fi, but it's not terrible either. It sounds "edgy" as released, not really very close to what it would sound like live without amplification--and more like the microphones used were placed too close to the singer and piano.  There is also a fair amount of artificial reverberation used.  It has about 1 dB of limiting/EQ to compress the dynamic range.  The is an unknown amount of compression used in this track, probably ~6 dB.

 

Chris

Chris,

This is where it's at !!! The ability to research and decipher the studio arts is the next level of audiophilia, thanks to the web! You're a pioneer!

 

How many of us have heard others, and have said ourselves: "I want to hear what the artist intended! I want it to sound natural!"? Once the music has left the studio, there is almost no such thing. Beginning with mic placement, countless manipulations are made until the final product has little to do with reality. Much of it sounds full and detailed, much doesn't. A big drum kit can sound like it's all coming out one speaker, while a single vocal track is coming from the extreme left and right. And of course, gain and compression can make or break a track and it's engineer.

 

What speaker makers decide what to do with all these variances is where we find ourselves. Some make speakers that try to make all songs sound decent, we've all seen the v-shaped frequency response graphs. Then there are those that make ruler flat or rolled off FR graphs, which while accurate and tame, can sound flat. Then there are makers like Klipsch and others, that found a "sound", a sound that tickles the edges of your ears, big, accurate and live, and extremely sensitive, revealing every nuance whether good or bad.

 

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6 hours ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

Right, but I did see a budget b&w bookshelf speaker and they used higher grade stuff like air-core inductors only one sandcast resistor. Would love to get all higher grade components in the crossover and see what it would sound like in my klipsch. Also would love to line the walls with some no-res.

Do What you think is best.

I like the way my speakers sound.

My cabinets are damped good enough to

present bass notes and sounds in a Klipsch Sound.

If I didn't like The Klipsch Sound I would have bought different speakers.

I agree ALL Speakers Companies could use better crossovers.

I'm not touching mine until the warranty expires.

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16 hours ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

My receiver is the anthem mrx720. Is that something that would work well in your opinion? I mean I would think to use a hardwired connection would sound much better than Bluetooth right? Using optical or HDMI has got to sound a lot better than wireless right? But I guess your saying it doesn’t make much of a difference. But the difference it does make is what? Which sounds better? What do you mean eliminate all the  extra components and cables/connections in between? I mean I know what you’re saying but I don’t know what those might be. All I do is hook up my computer to my anthem mrx720 via optical cord because if I try to use an HDMI cord I get this bad static sound from my front sound stage. Now I downloaded play fi on my computer and can play it through that also but I don’t see the need to because it works without me having to use it unlike if I was to use tidal on my phone. I don’t even know if my receiver is hooked up to the Internet wirelessly I was having problems getting it connected wirelessly but I know I did get it connected eventually but when I turn it off I don’t know if it reconnects automatically when I turn it on and I don’t plug an ethernet cord into the back of it because I need my only one to plug into the back of my computer to get my Internet connection on my computer. I think The has static something to do with my computer because I tried it with my other laptop and it didn’t do it. 
 

 

also what do I set my sound quality too in my control panel on my computer, in tidal it said to set it to 16bit 44100hz cd quality. Is this what it should be at?

 

Joe, your Anthem MRX720 appears to have a “Network” input. This should be for an Ethernet connection. If so, then you should be good to go for Hi_res streaming from Tidal. Check with Anthem for an app to control Tidal on the Anthem from your phone or tablet. It’s probably available from Google Play or whatever Apple uses if you use that.

 

Using optical or HDMI doesn’t have much to do with anything vs.WiFi. IMO the difference in sound quality between different recordings is far greater. WiFi and HDMI are both capable of streaming Hi-res files.Toslink OTOH I believe has a 96Khz/24 bit limitation. Not a game changer IMHO.

 

By eliminating the extra components I mean, for instance, IF, you had an Oppo CD/DVD player, and the model you have has Ethernet and/or WiFi connection capability, and you use the Oppo as the “connection” from your internet router to the receiver, this is not as good as connecting directly to the receiver/amplifier (if you can, most preamp/integrated amps cannot, many recent A/V receivers can) – you’ve added another component between the router/Ethernet connection and the amplifier. That component has its own noise and distortion which are added to the signal chain. Can you hear this? It depends on how good the rest of your system is, how good your listening room is, and how sensitive and experienced you are as a listener. I can hear it, especially after long periods of time, and then switching back to the other.

 

Bluetooth, as far as I know, doesn’t allow Hi-res streaming. But quite honestly, I’m getting quite excellent results using Bluetooth streaming from local radio or SirusXM, slightly better than the radio broadcast IMO.

 

WiFi is capable of streaming Hi_res but the problem is usually connection speed – which always seems to be slower than a hardwired Ethernet connection. The problem with WiFi (that I’ve experienced) is getting it connected in the first place, and then dropouts once it’s connected. Since Comcast significantly increased my internet speed (Ethernet 200Mbps/WiFi 85Mbps) I don’t experience as many issues with WiFi. But in my house there’s a lot of steel between the router and the receiving equipment (Amplifier, PC, TV etc) so I prefer to use a hardwired Ethernet connection.

 

Before I had Hi-res streaming, I ripped all my CD to a laptop and used J River Media software to catalog and play it. I connect the laptop to the NAD M32 via HDMI. I’ve experimented using USB vs. HDMI, both switching back & forth short term and also using each for weeks or months before switching back. My conclusion is I prefer HDMI. There are good technical reasons to back this up which I won’t get into here, right now.

 

So, in your situation, if you want the best quality digital signal, subscribe to Tidal or Quboz premium service. If you can, get a long Ethernet cable, connect it to your home Network Router, and connect the other end to the “Network” input on the Anthem. You should probably do this just so you can make a comparison between WiFi and Ethernet, if for nothing else than comparing reliability.

 

Be aware that using a computer, or any other component for streaming a Hi-res file via the Ethernet/WiFi connection and then sending that signal from there to the Anthem is exactly what I’m saying should be avoided – IF you want the absolute best quality streaming. Also be aware that using a browser on a PC will not allow you to stream certain files, in particular, MQA (Master Quality Authenticate) to their fullest extent (highest quality) – another technicality I won’t go into here. A lot people apparently don’t “get it” yet and just start arguing.

 

And, if you are streaming Tidal from your phone to your receiver, you are definitely NOT streaming Hi-res to your receiver. The problem here is the phone is receiving the stream from your router – and the phone is streaming, via Bluetooth connection, to your receiver. Bluetooth is the weak link here.

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15 hours ago, MechEngVic said:

If you use a toslink to mini-toslink cable with a chromecast audio, you can stream up to 96k/24bit hi-res files. In other words, the 3.5mm out on the chromecast doubles as a fiber optic digital out. At 100% volume on the chromecast the stream is bit-perfect. Any streaming app that you can cast from will work, from your tablet, phone, or computer. The chromecast audio toslink out will connect to any receiver/DAC that has a toslink input.

 That's good to know. I didn't realize that could be done. OTOH, I've never had to do that so it never even crossed my mind - what's let of it. LOL

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If a recording was made on analog equipment, transfer to digital at 24 bit 192kHz(Hi Res) is not going to sound better than a digital transfer to 16 bit 44.1kHz (CD) Similarly a transfer of CD quality to Hi Res is not going to make it better. The recording has to be done from the get go in Hi Res. The rest is hocus-pocus, smoke and mirrors.

Also I agree with all the others here that way to much manipulation is done to make things LOUDER many times at the sacrifice of sound quality. It is a crying shame. We lovers of high sound quality reproduction systems are a dying breed.

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3 hours ago, babadono said:

If a recording was made on analog equipment, transfer to digital at 24 bit 192kHz(Hi Res) is not going to sound better than a digital transfer to 16 bit 44.1kHz (CD) Similarly a transfer of CD quality to Hi Res is not going to make it better. The recording has to be done from the get go in Hi Res. The rest is hocus-pocus, smoke and mirrors.

Also I agree with all the others here that way to much manipulation is done to make things LOUDER many times at the sacrifice of sound quality. It is a crying shame. We lovers of high sound quality reproduction systems are a dying breed.

TRUE

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On 8/30/2020 at 7:31 PM, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

My receiver is the anthem mrx720.

 

You may want to use the receiver's DTS Play-Fi application for Tidal streaming. Your Anthem owner's manual should have instructions.

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On 8/31/2020 at 4:10 AM, rebuy said:

Do What you think is best.

I like the way my speakers sound.

My cabinets are damped good enough to

present bass notes and sounds in a Klipsch Sound.

If I didn't like The Klipsch Sound I would have bought different speakers.

I agree ALL Speakers Companies could use better crossovers.

I'm not touching mine until the warranty expires.

Right, I agree. I’m just saying getting better crossover components would make it sound just that much better and cleaner. And for changing the crossover that would be tricky. Exactly I like the way my speakers sound that’s why I’ve always loved klipsch and bought the rf7iii’s but I think there would be some room for improvement without completely ruining the klipsch sound. And yes I said to myself the same thing, not messing with any of that even if I do until warranty isn’t expired for sure. I’m starting to fall in love with these speakers. And the rc64iii sounds so good when playing in surround mode of all channel mode which I’m starting to like more and more the more I use it. It sounds better with certain songs and some songs sound better with just stereo. Depends what kind of mode I’m in you know. But the rc64iii is an absolute beast. Blends in perfectly with the rf7iii’s. Love it.

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7 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

 

You may want to use the receiver's DTS Play-Fi application for Tidal streaming. Your Anthem owner's manual should have instructions.

Yeah but do I have to if I’m using tidal through desktop, because it lets me use tidal without having to run Play-Fi. What would be the benefits of using Play-Fi on my desktop opposed to not using it? When i did it through my phone I had to use Play-Fi obviously. 

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On 8/30/2020 at 11:40 PM, MechEngVic said:

If you use a toslink to mini-toslink cable with a chromecast audio, you can stream up to 96k/24bit hi-res files. In other words, the 3.5mm out on the chromecast doubles as a fiber optic digital out. At 100% volume on the chromecast the stream is bit-perfect. Any streaming app that you can cast from will work, from your tablet, phone, or computer. The chromecast audio toslink out will connect to any receiver/DAC that has a toslink input.

Ok so what would be the benefits of doing this? So I would do this if I wanted better quality if I was going to be streaming off my phone. Do I have to do it via Bluetooth through my phone or can I use the Chromecast with my computer, and if I use it with my computer would it give me any better music quality? I just don’t get the point of using that, aren’t I already getting that quality using tidal through desktop tidal app. Sorry this is just confusing to me? 😩😢. so like if I wanted to use the thing with my computer or phone would I connect to it wirelessly and then plug the Chromecast thing into my receiver via toslink fiber optic digital cord?

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19 minutes ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

Right, I agree. I’m just saying getting better crossover components would make it sound just that much better and cleaner. And for changing the crossover that would be tricky. Exactly I like the way my speakers sound that’s why I’ve always loved klipsch and bought the rf7iii’s but I think there would be some room for improvement without completely ruining the klipsch sound. And yes I said to myself the same thing, not messing with any of that even if I do until warranty isn’t expired for sure. I’m starting to fall in love with these speakers. And the rc64iii sounds so good when playing in surround mode of all channel mode which I’m starting to like more and more the more I use it. It sounds better with certain songs and some songs sound better with just stereo. Depends what kind of mode I’m in you know. But the rc64iii is an absolute beast. Blends in perfectly with the rf7iii’s. Love it.

 

  I watch many videos of Danny and he does a lot of good work.

I would be cautious about lining my whole cabinet with "HI Res"

I had a Pair of Polks "S60 Signatures" that had dead *** cabinets.

They didn't deliver the low end goods with the acoustic sounds I like

like a Klipsch does. It was Too Dead. Sold em. Glad I was able to get rid of them.

You could ruin the sound of your speakers by Overdamping.

That stuff is probably hard to remove if you make a mistake by using it.

Better think it over. 

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4 hours ago, rebuy said:

 

  I watch many videos of Danny and he does a lot of good work.

I would be cautious about lining my whole cabinet with "HI Res"

I had a Pair of Polks "S60 Signatures" that had dead *** cabinets.

They didn't deliver the low end goods with the acoustic sounds I like

like a Klipsch does. It was Too Dead. Sold em. Glad I was able to get rid of them.

You could ruin the sound of your speakers by Overdamping.

That stuff is probably hard to remove if you make a mistake by using it.

Better think it over. 

Ok thank you, didn’t know that. Maybe less is more. Maybe less would help. And with the rf7iii they do have some type of foam behind the drivers and in other places. I wonder what material that is and what purpose it serves. Except he calls it “nores” I’m guessing that’s the same thing?

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4 hours ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

Ok so what would be the benefits of doing this? So I would do this if I wanted better quality if I was going to be streaming off my phone. Do I have to do it via Bluetooth through my phone or can I use the Chromecast with my computer, and if I use it with my computer would it give me any better music quality? I just don’t get the point of using that, aren’t I already getting that quality using tidal through desktop tidal app. Sorry this is just confusing to me? 😩😢. so like if I wanted to use the thing with my computer or phone would I connect to it wirelessly and then plug the Chromecast thing into my receiver via toslink fiber optic digital cord?

Well, If you're running a hi-res app from your laptop, out through USB to a hi-res capable DAC or hi-res capable receiver, then you might not need a chromecast audio.

 

But if you want the ability to do the same thing with your phone or tablet, and do it wirelessly, then it's great. I use my laptop to do work, my phone for online interaction, and my tablet, through the chromecast audio, to stream my tablet's amazon music app to the hi-fi. Bluetooth is getting pretty high quality, but if you stream with a hi-res streamer over wifi, you can stream uncompressed and bit-perfect, wirelessly. There are several wi-fi streamers besides the chromecast audio, Bluesound, Sonos, Yamaha, and others. But none beat the chromecast audio's price. Note: regardless of whether you send the signal through USB or wirelessly, you need a hi-res capable DAC or hi-res capable receiver. Not every digital device can convert hi-res signals. You can have a hi-res app on your phone, but it won't be hi-res out to headphones connected directly to your phone.

 

The chromecast audio grabs the hi-res digital signal from your device wirelessly over your home's wi-fi, the same way as a regular chromecast does tv from your device. Then it sends the signal to your hi-res capable DAC or hi-res capable receiver at up to 24bit 96KHz, if you use a toslink. I hope this helps.

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O ok Isee. I’m running from computer to receiver via optical cord btw. That’s what I thought I just couldn’t wrap my brain around it at first lol. Thank you kind sir. Ya it would be beneficial to do that with tour phone cause with the tidal phone app you can use critical listening mode but the windows 10 tidal doesn’t have that option. What does critical listening mode do exactly again? Also I am using the anthem mrx720 for receiver and parasound a31 to power my front sound stage. Also wouldn’t you get better quality using tidal or is amazon music stuff you buy and dl?

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18 hours ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

Yeah but do I have to if I’m using tidal through desktop, because it lets me use tidal without having to run Play-Fi. What would be the benefits of using Play-Fi on my desktop opposed to not using it? When i did it through my phone I had to use Play-Fi obviously. 

 

7 hours ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

with the tidal phone app you can use critical listening mode but the windows 10 tidal doesn’t have that option.

 

Critical listening mode with the Play-Fi option is your best choice for sound quality. https://play-fi.com/faq/entry/critical-listening-mode

 

Maybe you can update your laptop app to also have Critical listening mode, but I would presume that your Anthem receiver has a better DAC than the laptop does. 

 

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2 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

 

 

Critical listening mode with the Play-Fi option is your best choice for sound quality. https://play-fi.com/faq/entry/critical-listening-mode

 

Maybe you can update your laptop app to also have Critical listening mode, but I would presume that your Anthem receiver has a better DAC than the laptop does. 

 

What do you mean, if I use my laptop will I not use the Dac in my receiver? And tidal does not allow for using critical listening mode on desktop applications. 

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You are correct that using the laptop as the music player with an optical digital connection to the receiver will use the Anthem's DAC.

 

1 hour ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

tidal does not allow for using critical listening mode on desktop applications.

 

Maybe it does not matter?  Can you hear any difference between PC Tidal w/optical digital vs. phone app Tidal w/Play-Fi?  I don't know if you should, just learning along with you.

 

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2 hours ago, Khornukopia said:

You are correct that using the laptop as the music player with an optical digital connection to the receiver will use the Anthem's DAC.

 

 

Maybe it does not matter?  Can you hear any difference between PC Tidal w/optical digital vs. phone app Tidal w/Play-Fi?  I don't know if you should, just learning along with you.

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21 minutes ago, JoeJoeThe3rd said:

I haven’t really done a comparison. I just used to use it on my phone at first then changed to desktop. If I had to say it sound better on desktop. I’m sure doing it hardwired is a significant difference in sound quality from Bluetooth. You loose sound quality when transfer sound through the air opposed to using a cord like HDMI or optical. I spoke to my speaker dealer to confirm and did a little research online, but I’m sure there’s ways around this. Like there  was a kind sir on here that gave a option that you could buy a device and you could listen to music wirelessly at the same listening quality as a HDMI would be. But still I’m skeptical. I think I’m just sticking with the hardwired method so I can be sure and it’s easier and cheaper since I already have all the hardware. I’m confused though if I’m using my sound card or not in my computer or if I have two different sound cards because I’m using an optical cord right now and when I use my optical forward it says I’m using the Realtek digital output optical Realtek High definition audio, and if I use the HDMI cord then what gets selected is the C2 4F390 Nvidia high definition audio In my system sound setting on windows 10. Now in tidal when I use my optical cord I just have selected system controlled under settings. Do I have two sound cards in my computer or on my motherboard I’m confused because of the two different names? Maybe in the future I’ll dabble with the wireless device. Damn it didn’t mean to double the post!!

 

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