marksdad Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 i have another corn sellor, and he will be e mailing me info on his corns, but before i buy? tell me guys, how do the corns compare to reference series? ESPECIALLY HOW WOULD THEY IMPROVE MY SYSTEM???? i dont want to plunk down 1100 or so to not hear an improvement, i also am talking with lascalla sellors, and i remember from previous posts that some prefere las, some corns? i just want to hear sweet sweet music, any opinions guys and or gals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted December 12, 2002 Author Share Posted December 12, 2002 sn# for the corns; 8702583&4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I think that my music sounds better on Heritage than reference. I have used Cornwalls and Heresy's to test this and both times I felt that the music sounded better with heritage. I have not tried movies though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Uh oh....a Reference Vs. Heritage thread! It really is a matter of preference. To my ear, the Cornwall is superior to an RF-7, but that's just my preference. The RF-7 and the Cornwall is a fair fight though, but it's a matter of what your ears like. I will say that I much prefer the Cornwall build too - even the MDF versions - over the Reference. Cornwalls Vs. RF-5?? Yeah, I think that's an upgrade. The Cornwalls you are considering are Cornwall II's built in 1987. All that I can tell you is that I own a pair of Cornwall II's (one year later than the pair you are looking at), and I have auditioned the RF-7's on several occasions. I do prefer the Cornwall. I fell in love with them about 15 years ago - love at first listen. Old habits and addictions die hard Edit in response to Justin: Cornwalls in HT are AWESOME!!! Especially with good subbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 I have a pair of CW II's, 8708549&50, in oiled oak. Power with Parasound 2205AT through a B&K Ref30. It is a magic combo thats smooth as silk, but can also knock your socks off. Your Rotel gear is of the same caliber and you will not be disappointed. As soon as I finish re-finishing my '81 LaScalas, they will take the front soundstage. Although the CW's go deeper, the mid and highs of the LS outshine the CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted December 14, 2002 Author Share Posted December 14, 2002 ok, i went ahead and bought the above mentioned corns, 1000 delivered to my front door, i know they are just a bit pricy, but, i want heritage. they will ship on monday, with any luck they should arrive by thursday, i am just trying to contain my excitement. i will be moving the rf 3's upstairs for 2 channel in my bedroom, how do you think the corns will fit in with the rest of my system, or will i need to jump deeper into the money pit and try to find better timber matches for sourounds, and center? the rf 5's will now be my satelites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 ---------------- On 12/14/2002 6:55:26 AM marksdad wrote: ok, i went ahead and bought the above mentioned corns, 1000 delivered to my front door, i know they are just a bit pricy, but.... ---------------- Mark, Congratulations!! Actually, that's a good price, especially considering packaging and delivery cost included too. Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flason Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 The first time I saw the Corns, I was amazed at how huge they were. They replaced my KLF30's and although the 30's are taller, the CW's look bigger. Be prepared. They will take-up a good 6 1/2' on the 16' long wall of yours. Do not worry about toeing in/out right now. As the name implies, for best results they go in the corner and against the wall. I have been using a KLF-C7 as center for a while. I think it's a great combo and wouldn't pay the inflated prices for the Academy you see on e-bay. Those e-bay folks want to screw you without buying you dinner and a movie, so to hell with them. Congrats and welcome to the Heritage side of the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 14, 2002 Share Posted December 14, 2002 "ok, i went ahead and bought the above mentioned corns, 1000 delivered to my front door, i know they are just a bit pricy, but, i want heritage. they will ship on monday, with any luck they should arrive by thursday, i am just trying to contain my excitement." Congratulations! You won't regret the purchase. Not a bad price, either, considering the shipping charge. "i will be moving the rf 3's upstairs for 2 channel in my bedroom, how do you think the corns will fit in with the rest of my system, or will i need to jump deeper into the money pit and try to find better timber matches for sourounds, and center? You really should consider finding the proper matches for your Cornwalls eventually. You can use the RF stuff for now, until you find the necessary Heritage matches - but in the long term, you would do well to consider the switchover. You can sell the RF stuff as needed to finance this. "the rf 5's will now be my satelites" as I said, these are a good temporary solution. Timbre matching is really what this is all about. For justification of the switchover to all Heritage, read HornEd's post on timbre matching in Home Theater. It will explain the concept in detail. Yes, yes, yes!!! - it IS worth the trouble. Enjoy life with your Cornwalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted December 21, 2002 Author Share Posted December 21, 2002 WELL LET ME BEGIN BY THANKING EVERYONE WHO REPLIED!!! you guys as usual were right on track, the guy i bought from really did a super job packaging and shipping, i recieved my package in 3 days. and were they ever big, i took off early from work to go to the shipper and get them, i did not want to wait until they arrived, so i had to carry them the final 1/2 block by myself (a labor of love), anyway i got them into my living room and in the box i had trouble getting around the living room WOW these were monsters! once i uncrated them i just stared at them, damn they are huge? where will i place them? and how? so i remembered the posts, and i just inched them to thier final resting spot, moved my rf 5's into thier new spot connected everything, brought out the rat shack spl meter and attempted to sync everything, this proved a little harder than when i just had reference, i had to do much more fine adjustment, anyway i finally got them all within 1 decible, and i was ready to go. at first, the whole evening as a matter of fact, i thought i did not like them, what are those guys talking about? (i thought) the sound stage was very different i could not find a focus? music coming from everywhere? not at all what i was used to? the next day i worried? what did i do? more mis spent money, oh no woe is me. than i got home from work and i thought i would give them another listen, today better, the reference legacy fading in my memory, mind expanding to except more input, i noticed that the same sound was there, except there was no real focus, no real sweet spot, i noticed that the music seemed to be coming from everywhere all at once, and instead of coming at me directed at the sweet spot, it seemed to be floating around the room? higher highs? yup. lower lows? yup. i settled into my listening spot, closed my eyes, and i had a notion, i remembered the old nightmare on elmstreet movies, the part where the actors stood, just before freddy emerged and without moving they were erily moved into the field of play, kind of panned forward, they were no longer spectators, but players? this is how it felt (and still does)so real, so immersed in sound, i sat in different places in the room, and the sweet sound was just everywhere, and soooooo good, wow, i did have 1 thought however, i thought you guys were wrong about the reference-heritage system not working well together, it sounded seamless, perfect transition's, and i got on my hands and knees to make sure everything was working? huh? what? the reference was not even on? i checked the display on the processor, the cd player had switched to 2 channel because of the media, i just smiled inside, the 2 corns sounded better than my entire reference system, so i switched to 5.1 channel stereo to compare, oh yeah there we go sweet sweet music, but something more? sweet spots back? yup, the rf 5's were directing the sound back towards the sweet spot the system sounded terrific, but now less? plus i remembered another thread, the 1 that talked about the more speakers in system, the more matrixing, and thusly less sound through each speaker, so i played for the next 2 days, switching between 2 channel and 5.1, on friday for music i switched off the 5.1 for ever, for music i discovered 2 channel, yeah baby but i will say this. for dvd-a, dd, dts the reference and heritage combination seem to work really well, with all the time i spent setting the spl, delay...... it sounds really good. i have had all the reference line in house, yup, even the flagship rf 7, but heritage is just another class. the reference series is the porche of speakers, but the heritage line are the bently's, roll's royce's, i have tried and tried to even hear the heritage line, and i purchased on word alone, and i will say again, you guys were right on the mark,thanks guys, now i am considering a pair (3) heresy;s for effects, the search goes on, but it does get better and better thanks for listening, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 "i settled into my listening spot, closed my eyes, and i had a notion, i remembered the old nightmare on elmstreet movies, the part where the actors stood, just before freddy emerged and without moving they were erily moved into the field of play, kind of panned forward, they were no longer spectators, but players? this is how it felt (and still does)so real, so immersed in sound, i sat in different places in the room, and the sweet sound was just everywhere, and soooooo good, wow, i did have 1 thought however, i thought you guys were wrong about the reference-heritage system not working well together, it sounded seamless, perfect transition's, and i got on my hands and knees to make sure everything was working? huh? what? the reference was not even on? i checked the display on the processor, the cd player had switched to 2 channel because of the media, i just smiled inside, the 2 corns sounded better than my entire reference system.........." Hehehehehe Glad to hear that we have converted yet another. Just think how good an all Heritage HT would sound?? Now it is a matter of seeking out the necessary speakers to finish the HT. The remaining Reference speakers will do fine until you are ready for the remaining switchover. I would say "enjoy the Cornwalls", but it appears you are already doing just that. Congratulations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Now, now, y'all keep your pantyhose on and don't get yourselves all worked up:) I'm telling they both sound great, and each has inherent strengths and weaknesses. I don't know where the RF-7's were auditoned at, in what room, or associated equipment -- but I can tell you the 7 is not the 5 -- not even close. The horn on the 7 is a monster, and is more like a pro-style driver than what is used in the RF-5 and below. I can tell you that life with the Heresies has been great. I believe they have more clarity than the RF-7's, are crisper -- and deliver a more articulate sound at low to moderate listening levels. However, they pinch up rather quickly -- and aren't all that pleasent to listen to at 95db and above ('true' 95db at the listening position). There is more compression than with the RF-7, they are not nearly as dynamic, or have as much resolving power when it comes to low level detail. In spite of this, the Heresies are an extremely musical speaker to listen to -- and I have trouble pulling myself away from them. I understand that the Heresy is not the Cornwall, and I'm sure the Cornwall will do better with higher SPL's, but I'm also sure the Heritage signature will remain intact -- and I believe overall, the Cornwall will succumb to some of the same problems as the Heresy (compression). I do believe that Heritage, like any speaker -- benefits from some toe in. I've got my Heresies throwing a nice stable image -- with dead on center voices. The RF-7's can be driven to insane levels with no discernable compression, maintaining their signature regardless of volume level. They image better than the Heresies -- not just throwing a nice side to side soundstage, but front to back as well. Though not as crisp or clear as the Heresies, they have an uncanny ability to layer the music -- separating everything out from top to bottom. In other words, I think they do a better job of pulling low level detail out of the music and getting it to the ears. Then of course there is the slam factor. The RF-7's are simply the bomb. They are an extremely 'fast' sounding speaker, and everything is very tight and buttoned up. I think Al K. is correct when he talks about the ears making adjustments. If I listen to the Heresies for a few days, and then go upstairs and fire up the RF-7's, I think to myself - "man, there's something missing here." After a few cuts off of a CD I say, "damn, there it is -- oh so sweet". The next day I'm in the basement on the computer, or doing some work in the workroom and fire the Heresies up, I say, "Yeah, they are a little bright -- not much warmth, and they could use a bit of polish -- a little more refinement." 1/2 an hour later I come out of the workroom -- and Kerry Livgren sounds like he's standing in my basement, and the cymbals sound like they're coming off a real drumkit. Heritage and Reference are simply two sides of the same coin. Debate is fruitless. They both sound great in different ways. That's all there is to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Dean, I have nothing against the Reference series...never did. And I have to say that when I came on this BB back less than a year ago, I was kinda taken aback at your (then) continual reference to heritage speakers as "ear-bleeders"! I just could not possibly understand how you ever got that notion!! I understand that you had "heard" some of them in the past and somehow got that idea into your head, how??..I had NO IDEA!! It was REALLY perplexing to me, I'll tell ya!! When you said you were gonna buy a pair of Heresys, I thought "What the hell has come over this guy? All I have seen him say is how superior the reference series is to the heritage line!! I hope that he gives them a good listen when he gets them and is honest in his evaluation instead of just using this purchase to back-up his current thinking on reference vs. heritage!!" Well...SURPRISE!! LOL! You gave an honest evaluation, and readily "ate crow" on your past comments on heritage speakers!! Good boy!! LOL! But, when reading your comments it dawned on me that you were comparing your RF-7's to the Heresy model...and STILL finding the Heresy was a great speaker! And I kept wondering..."The Heresy is NOT in the same category as the RF-7, but the Cornwall IS!! If the Cornwall was still being made today, it would cost about the same as a pair of LaScalas, just like it used to, and that is more in line with the RF-7 category than the Heresy is!! It would be a much more accurate comparison between the two series if he was listening to Cornwalls instead!!" Now it appears as though you are looking for a pair of Cornwalls, and I very much look forward to reading the results of a comparison between THEM and your RF-7's, when you get them!! After your comments in a comparison of RF-7's to Heresys, I honestly believe you are in for ONE BIG SURPRISE!! LOL! Either way...no matter how that comparison turns out for you when you DO get those Cornwalls, I am happy that you got those Heresys, and liked them... and even MORESO happy that you decided to KEEP them!! And I hope I don't have to see anymore "ear-bleeder" comments from you from now on!! LOL! Welcome to the "Heritage Club"!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 "But, when reading your comments it dawned on me that you were comparing your RF-7's to the Heresy model...and STILL finding the Heresy was a great speaker! And I kept wondering..."The Heresy is NOT in the same category as the RF-7, but the Cornwall IS!! If the Cornwall was still being made today, it would cost about the same as a pair of LaScalas, just like it used to, and that is more in line with the RF-7 category than the Heresy is!! It would be a much more accurate comparison between the two series if he was listening to Cornwalls instead!!" " Exactly! This is why I told DeanG that he should start saving his $$$$ for Cornwalls if he liked the Heresys, because putting Heresys in the ring with RF-7's is no more fair than putting Heresys in the ring against Cornwalls. I personally cannot wait for DeanG to get Cornwalls, because it will be "The heavyweeeeeeight championship of da world!" LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Oh yes, I totally agree with the both of you. I KNOW the Heresy is not a Cornwall, but I wanted to make sure it was understood that the RF5 is NOT an RF7 either! I do know that while Klipsch engineers were voicing the RF7, there were sessions comparing the RF7 and Cornwall. I am VERY interested in seeing where the Cornwall parts company with the Heresey, and the RF7. Nothing I hear however, is going to make me dump the RF7's -- they are truly excellent. Incidently, for all intents and purposes I have bought some Cornwalls. Jeff was so kind as to let me nickle and dime away at his until I pay them off. It will probably cost around $1000 total to get them to my doorstep, and I'm halfway there. I'm hoping to have them in the next couple of weeks. I didn't need the cottonballs for the Heresies, so I think I'll be alright with the Cornwalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 are you plannin on sellin off the RF-3's or RF-5's? I know someone that wants RF-3's really bad, and if they were a good price I'm sure he'd get them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted December 21, 2002 Author Share Posted December 21, 2002 my son benefits from my upgrades, he is now using the 3's as 2 channel for his gaming, i put them in place of 2 bose 301's, 2 polk atrium 55's, 2 yamaha ??'s, and i polk tiny sub, and the 3's beat them all, HANDS DOWN!!!!! HE HE HE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 did you ever compare lascala's to cornwalls? can you tell me how they sound and which you prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted December 23, 2002 Share Posted December 23, 2002 As one Cornwall lover to another, these speakers especially in a large room with high ceilings...RAWK!!!! Glad you like them also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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