Deang Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 hours ago, henry4841 said: Believe me I am smart enough not to lock horns with Dean. Oh sure you are. I'm not that smart, seriously. I just made a lot of mistakes along the way and accidently learned some things. "Rough bunch". I would say less so now than before. These days it's mostly because of pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 4 hours ago, henry4841 said: Someone please show me on the schematic where the AL crossover has a fault electronically that makes it a bad crossover. That is all that I am saying. Looking through old threads last night, there were two issues. The first was blown tweeters, which Dennis blamed on poor soldering. The second issue relates to a peak in the response that drives some people nuts. One of those people is John Albright, who hears a howling sound. "I have run into this same exact problem with the AL network and it is the ground connection for the tweeter inductor (which is on the 2µF cap for the elliptical filter). With this connection open the network goes to 6dB and breaks tweeter leadout wires in no time." -- DJK @CECAA850 had an AL problem, and involved Bob. This ended up being a failed autoformer. When Bob replaced the autoformer, the problem went away. Attached are the before and after plots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 6 hours ago, henry4841 said: I can agree with this statement I cannot agree with that statement - the AL Networks AL-AL2-AL3 are used in several thousands, if not tens of thousands of Lascala speakers with 0 issues , however as usual , some people just like to complain - 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Type AA plot for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Hopefully @CECAA850 shows up. I think that first plot might not be the AL, but an AL with the notch filters removed, and he reused the T3A in a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 7 hours ago, henry4841 said: I read about Dean's experiment with batteries in a crossover and have wanted to experiment with that design. Dean sent the parts for free just so I would give my impressions. Not much of motive for profit on his part with that regard... Battery bias Cornwall networks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 18 minutes ago, mike stehr said: Dean sent the parts for free just so I would give my impressions Christmas is Early this Year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 That would have been around 2015 I think. I did a Roadshow with some battery biased AA's. There's a handful of those floating around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 1 hour ago, mike stehr said: Dean sent the parts for free just so I would give my impressions. Not much of motive for profit on his part with that regard... Battery bias Cornwall networks What was your listening impression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Deang said: Looking through old threads last night, there were two issues. The first was blown tweeters, which Dennis blamed on poor soldering. The second issue relates to a peak in the response that drives some people nuts. One of those people is John Albright, who hears a howling sound. "I have run into this same exact problem with the AL network and it is the ground connection for the tweeter inductor (which is on the 2µF cap for the elliptical filter). With this connection open the network goes to 6dB and breaks tweeter leadout wires in no time." -- DJK @CECAA850 had an AL problem, and involved Bob. This ended up being a failed autoformer. When Bob replaced the autoformer, the problem went away. Attached are the before and after plots. Not my plots. The bad autoformer I had showed a big spike right before it rolled off. Not sure where my graphs are but I've posted them somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Deang said: That would have been around 2015 I think. I did a Roadshow with some battery biased AA's. There's a handful of those floating around. There's a set of battery B's in my old cornscalas somewhere around College Station. They were some great crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: Not my plots. The bad autoformer I had showed a big spike right before it rolled off. Not sure where my graphs are but I've posted them somewhere. That's interesting, because those plots were posted by Bob in your AL mod thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curious_George Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 Dean - what is your listening impression of battery bias networks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 I thought it made inexpensive metalized caps sound more like film and foils. It's a difficult thing to describe without sounding like a lunatic. I was convinced it was placebo, so I built some regular AA's using the same capacitors (Dayton Audio), and compared. Metalized (polypropylene and polyester) have a tizziness in the top end and it's one of those things you don't really notice until it's gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Deang said: That's interesting, because those plots were posted by Bob in your AL mod thread. Could be a failing memory on my part. You have a link to that thread? I could have sworn the bad one had a bigger spike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 The original thread was bumped, it's like four down from this one. Those were the only plots I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 38 minutes ago, Deang said: The original thread was bumped, it's like four down from this one. Those were the only plots I saw. I guess it wasn't a spike but the lack of attenuation in the stock one. Been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 On 12/5/2021 at 1:28 PM, 000 said: I cannot agree with that statement - the AL Networks AL-AL2-AL3 are used in several thousands, if not tens of thousands of Lascala speakers with 0 issues , however as usual , some people just like to complain - I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 29 minutes ago, henry4841 said: I started participating for enjoyment and when it is not that I will just leave and let you guys have it. I am not here for conflict or arguing. I sure hope you don't run off I enjoy your posts and participation in these discussions. I pretty much came here to learn and a lot of times these debates are exactly what's needed to flesh out the facts, wade through the Bullshit. If topics get too heated or certain someones decide to start throwing insults then its easy to just move on to another topic or thread no hard feelings. You learn pretty quickly who's worth engaging with and who's not-- really this forum has tamed down quite a bit its seems to me recently but then again I haven't been on here as much either. As far as the AL topic goes here's a snip from the La Scala history page: History of the LaScala by Klipsch employee Mark Kauffman. LS Time Line MK 060411.pdf 1983 The Type AL crossover network was introduced incorporating steeper filter slopes for enhanced tweeter protection and smoother response in the crossover regions. 1983 The Type AL-2 network was introduced to accommodate the new K-55-M mid-range driver. This Electrovoice sourced driver was essentially the same as the previous K-55-V with a smoother response 1987 The Aluminum K-400 horn was replaced with the K-401 structural foam horn resulting in slightly improved distortion figures. 1989 The AL-3 network was introduced to correct for a shift in the output of the K-55-M midrange driver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masca72 Posted December 7, 2021 Author Share Posted December 7, 2021 2 hours ago, jjptkd said: 1983 The Type AL crossover network was introduced incorporating steeper filter slopes for enhanced tweeter protection and smoother response in the crossover regions. 1983 The Type AL-2 network was introduced to accommodate the new K-55-M mid-range driver. This Electrovoice sourced driver was essentially the same as the previous K-55-V with a smoother response Ah here is a lot of things explained, AL has been updated in AL-2 because the K55-V driver has been replaced too, not because it was not good. So it makes no sense to plug in an AL-3 if my speakers have the original K55-V driver and aluminium castle K400 horn, my ears didn't lie to me then ... Tweeter burnt, connections jumping I don't get any of this my AL's have been checked and they respond perfectly. I think it depends on the condition the speaker was stored in, if the digetted AL crossovers came from some barn then understandably they weren't right.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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