What ever happend to Equalizers?

[heresy2guy]

They used to be HOT items in the 70s and early to mid 80s. Heck, I seem to recall that every "hi-fi" setup had an equalizer, the good one being the Audio Control C-101. How come nobody buys them anymore?

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I remember when a 20 band per channel Soundcraftmen EQ was it. Then Radio Shack and other lower end brands had their versions, and finally EQ's with pink noise generators came out. But yes, they have went away!

The best way that I can explain it it that you run your Heresys flat right? No need to put A1 Steak sauce on a Prime Rib. Good equipment means no need to change tone controls unless the room is terrible.

I'm sure that not all agree, but this is just my view.

Chris

[heresy2guy]

Well, with my Proton I had the loudness feature on at low volumes (under 3 on the knob, out of a possible 10) but always have the treble at max and bass at either max or 3/4ths. I like bright, sparkling highs and the max treble setting makes this happen. As for the bass, well I like it tight, which the Heresy does at mid to high volume well but not at low volume, which is why I use the loudness. Of course, with my current Technics, I have no loudness feature and the sound is pretty terrible regardless of the bass/treble settings BUT I'm anxiously awaiting an older H/K 430 that I recently bought on Ebay and can't wait to hear how it sounds! The tough part is the waiting (as Tom Petty and his "heartbreakers" once said in a tune if I remember correctly)! It's being shipped UPS ground service and it says I should get it by the 30th. It can't get here soon enough if you ask me. LOL.

[mobile homeless]

yep. I agree. I usually turn my treble up full. Then bass up full. And for good measure, have my loudness button engaged! Hell, you cant get too much bass and treble, right? Indeed.

Boom Chick Boom Chick Boom Chick.

The waiting is the easiest part. I dont like the Bayer Aspirin afterwards.

kh

[Deang]

They can still be a good item if used correctly. If overall flat response is your game, then there's no other way to get it. They should be used in conjunction with a warble tone generator or spectrum analyzer to sort out room irregularites. The equalizer is then set accordingly, and then for the most part left alone. Minor changes can be implemented with the settings to adjust for recordings -- but very slight. Audiophile loons don't like them because they introduce some noise and possible signal degradation. The irony here is that some speakers 'tinkle boom' without an equalizer, and the equalizer might be the best way to fix it.

[HDBRbuilder]

Heresy2guy,

Your cranking up the bass and treble is gonna blow yer tweeters, and maybe your woofer...not a good idea at all!! You end up clipping in your amp and clipping in the amp leads to driver destruction! If you do that crap on the 430, even though it is only rated at 25 WPC, it will blow the Heresy tweeters!!...and maybe the woofers too!!...if the amplifier section doesn't catch fire first! LOL! Rule one: never crank ANY bass/treble/midrange control much more than just a TINY bit past the "flat" point, especially if you are putting any volume into the speakers!! If it ain't loud enough with the volume control, then you aren't gonna make it any better by boosting the gain on the tone controls, all you will do is put the amp into clipping and create distortion...especially at volume!... and you risk amp AND speaker damage in doing so! Another point is to never crank the volume ALL THE WAY UP either...because, again, it throws the amp into clipping...whether the tone controls are set at flat or not. There is always more room to turn up a volume knob than there SHOULD be, which leads many to do so...but it is NOT what you should do!! A general guidline for volume controls is to NEVER turn them up more than 2/3 of the distance they CAN turn!!...and quite often, even going up just THAT much is TOO MUCH!! If you take the 430 volume up past 2 o'clock, you are going too far!...even with the tone controls set at "flat"(high noon)!! The H/K 430 has a contour switch(like a loudness switch) for low volume listening, and it gradually takes itself out of effect as the volume is turned up, but making extreme tone control adjustments can STILL damage the drivers even at low volume...ESPECIALLY when using an amplifier section that has gobs of usable current, like on those twin-powered H/K models!!...besides, I don't even see a need to USE the contour on the H/K when listening through the Heresys...the H/K is already "bassy" enough at low volumes with them! Just a few words to the wise, whether you heed them or not is up to you!

As for the use of equalizers...I have a pair of Soundcraftsman 20-12A equalizers I bought specifically for use with my Teac A2340-R 4-channel reel to reel...I very seldom kicked them in, except when doctoring certain songs in the recording process...for example: "LaGrange" by ZZ Top from their "Tres Hombres" album...on its LP version, I never liked the mix...the lead guitar was always overpowered by the bass, and the bass was too "bassy"(ie., "muddied")...so I dropped back the bass frequency controls on the equalizer from flat some(in a ragged diagonal appearance...LOL!) when recording it to reel tape...everything else remained flat...including the gain controls for each channel...on the CD of "Tres Hombres", the mix doesn't need that doctoring on that song, though! Even though I don't use the equalizers that often, normally having the "bypass" kicked in, they are still nice to have around on occasion...especially when making a live recording in multiple tracks on the reel machine! As for room equalization, yes...equalizers do have a place for use...but I have seldom used mine for that!

FYI...those Soundcraftsman equalizers are VERY nice pieces...and are ALSO sleepers on the EBAY market!!...going for a song!!

[jdm56]

I think equalizers and assorted other "black box" audio fix-its peaked with the general peak in hi-fi popularity back in the late 70's/early eighties. It was the "stereophonicious" age, during which, great numbers of the "geekosaurus erectus" wandered the earth. They usually travelled alone or in small groups, going from hi-fi hut to hi-fi hut in order to feed on the myriad black and silver boxes, which were cheap and plentiful, and to be nourished by the sounds they produced, which scientists now believe were somehow related to the geekosaurus' reproductive process.

But as we all know, with time, video games, Boy George and home theater sprang up, and today have practically choked out "G-Rec's" food supply. Only a few black boxes remain, and they are hard to find in the giant "mega-super stores" which dominate the landscape today.

The few G-Recs which remain must forage for food on the internet, often being reduced to a diet of mid-priced A/V receivers and cheap, plastic DVD players, most of which are grown in China. A few of the fittest, who were successful in choosing mates with large inheritances, dubbed sub-species "luckacious bastardis" do thrive, mainly on a diet of separates which only grow at altitudes unattainable by the majority of their kind. And these successful foragers tend to eschew the "black box" which was the staple of their ilk in an earlier age, in favor of the most rare and purely refined basics - pairs of mono tube amps, expensive vinyl playback equipment and exotic loudspeakers that cost more than common G-Rec's first dwelling.

...well, that and the fact that cheap equalizers used unwisely tended to cause more sonic problems than they fixed, pretty well did 'em in...

...Anyone interested in a mint Technics 12-band stereo equalizer w/ pink noise generator and spectrum ANALyzer?

[whell]

We kicked a post around her e a few months ago about why loudness conrols went away. This is probably the same topic with a different face. You can go into pawn shops and find alot of the old ADC eq units sittling on the shelf collecting dust. I think this was a marketing experiment that went the way of the Pet Rock, at least in terms of making EQ units appeal to the mass market.

JVC used to have the "SEA" EQ controls built ino their receivers too, and those disappeared. I'm sure that they found over time that most consumers probably preferred a simple two way tone control.

[Deang]

LOL --

Great read James, I enjoyed it immensely --

Merry Christmas.

[Doug C]

Based on my experience (many hours with a SPL meter and test tones) the old 20 band equalizers are not very useful. The biggest frequency response problem in almost any room will be found below 100hz and usually in very narrow bands. For instance in my room I have a +14 dB peak between 36-40hz. Adjustment bands on most equalizers are much broader than this. In my case you could reduce the +14 dB peak with a standard equalizer but it will also reduce frequencies much lower and higher than the narrow 36-40hz band where my peak exists. The net result being I could get rid of my 36-40hz peak but on the flip side bass below and above this narrow band is left very thin.

I have found that a parametric equalizer is very useful for taming frequency response problems below 100hz. I use a Rane PE-17, 5-channel parametric equalizer. Each of the 5 channels has a knob that allow you to precisely dial in the center frequency you want to effect (in my case 38hz). A second knob allows you to set the bandwidth (36-40hz in my case). And a third knob that allows you to set cut or boost in that range (-14 dB in my case). I connect my preamp sub out directly to the equalizer and the output of the equalizer to my sub. This way the equalizer is only in the path of the low frequency content.

In my case a 3-channel parametric equalizer would have been more than adequate. I've only got three peaks below 100hz. The equalizer does a nice job cutting peaks. If you have nulls (frequency ranges of low volume) it is difficult to fill these nulls by using the boost on an equalizer. Null areas are areas where frequencies cancel each other out (especially at low frequencies). Boosting these frequencies just results in more cancelation and the net effect is generally no increase in volume. Nulls usually have to be addressed by finding the right speaker and or listening position within the room.

Properly setting up an equalizer as described above is a bit complicated. You have to have an SPL meter and a test tone generator or good test tone CD. With no EQ I record the SPL at 2hz increments between 20-100hz. This gives a clear indicating of where peaks & nulls sit within the frequency range. If I have any serious nulls I play with sub phase to see if that will minimize the problem. I prefer subs with a variable 0-180 degree adjustment knob as opposed to a 0 or 180 degree selector swich. I have my sub phase set at 35 degrees for best performance with no equalization.

After getting the sub phase optimized then I start setting up the parametric equalizer to cut the two or three room induced peaks that exist. Even high dollar subs will often sound boomy due to these room induced peaks. It's amazing how smooth bass can be when using a good equalizer properly.

A note about setting sub phase by ear. Most sub manuals say try setting the sub phase a 0 degrees and listen to the system and then set the phase to 180 degrees and listen to the system. Then select the phase which appears to produce the greatest bass output. I find this method unreliable. When the sub is out of phase with the mains cancelation tends to occur in relatively narrow frequency bands. In other words you may get a serious null say between 50-70hz. This can tend to make the sub sound boomy which is often percieved by the ear as louder when in fact you have the sub out of phase with the mains. When properly phased the bass will be smooth and the sub will not call attention to itself.

Doug C

[Al Klappenberger]

Hi Guys,

Equalization can be a pretty sticky subject if done properly. I don't think

most people are aware that there are two types of equalizers. There is the

"graphic" type that most people are familiar with and then there is the

"parametric" type that the professional audio people use. I have a pair of

these (Rane PE-15) hidden under a towel beside my system. The have only 5

channels which are each adjustable over a center frequency range and a

bandwidth. That makes three controls for each channel. Frequency, width and

the +-boost/cut control. I haven't had any experience with the "graphic" type

because the parametric type always seem like a better idea to me.

Most people seem to think of equaizers as just expanded "tone controls". NOT!

To be used properly, they must be set up using instruments like a real-time

analyzer. You really can't do it by ear! I don't have a real-time analyzer so

use a swept "warble" tone from a fucntion generator to an X-Y recorder to

draw a response plot. It's a very laborious method! Once you have them set by

instruments for a flat response you need to hide them and keep your FINGERS

OFF! I have had many occasions where even after setting them up with

instruments the results sounded like crap and I had to start all over! I

found that the secret is to set the mike (used by the real-time analyzer)

about 3 feet in front of each speaker and set the controls for a flat

response to that speaker. THEN: After you have set the left and right

separately, you need to set BOTH EQUALIZERS EQUALLY TO A MIDPOINT BETWEEN

LEFT AND RIGHT. If you try to compensate for room differences between left

and right separately the stereo image goes completely to pot! They only seem

to work well for smoothing out the near-field response of the speaker above

about 500 Hz. They also work nicely below this frequency for killing peaks

like wall and ceiling reflections. Don't make the mistake of setting the mike

on the listening chair. I tried that, it just doesn't work! Another big

mistake people make with equalizers is to try to boost a huge frequency

response dip. All you will do is drive your amp bananas! Your brain seems

fill in dips like that anyhow. Use them as CUT only. You can definitely hear

a response peak. No boost greater then about 3 dB! Even that small of a boost

will double the demands on your amp. You can get away with that on a horn-

loaded speaker like a Khorn or LaScala.

Al K.

[mobile homeless]

Nice post, Jim....Certainly, one of your best parodies.

As for the whole graphic equalizer debate, in a realm where LESS is MORE, the lowly graphic equalizer does not match well. It is a device that, in my view, brings in for more compromise in its attempt to bring correction to room or recording.

I personally find the corrections sound artificial since the sliders and controls, not to mention the parts within, DO degrade your system once it reaches a certain level of transparency and openness. Inserting a graphic equalizer adds more grain and another layer of substance to the sound making the entire presentation take on a more opaque nature with even less see-through quality. Actually, once your system reaches this level, the addition of a device like this is not subtle in the degradation.

What I mostly find is that people end up using the high end of the equalizer to make up for this lack of tranpanency and openness by adding an artificial, bright, more sizzly top end, that does not sound natural.

Using a device like this also tends to flatten the soundstage, reduce blackness of background, squash images, add a more articial presentation, and generally reduce fidelity. I find it ironic that many of the same sect that would talk of tube colorations would love ye olde graphic equalizer and the artificial and overly enhanced sound/corrections it brings.

In a properly setup system with good room treatments and quality gear, something like an EQ device should not be needed.

kh

[Chris Robinson]

Those red LEDs were just there to stare at while you were reloading the bong ...

[Soundthought]

What a great thread.

Loads of great comments and useful information.

It was a pleasure to read.

Merry Christmas.

May the smiley face on your EQ bring you happiness this holiday season.

John.

FWIW. I love my C-101 series III and I just shelved my 12 band Technics for a 10 band Yamaha GE-80 in my office set-up.

Looks and sounds great to me.

[minn_male42]

as mentioned above, alot of eq's add noise into a system....at least alot of the consumer models...

eq's at the pro level are much quieter and are still alive and well...probably every commercial and pro audio system that you are exposed to has at least one if not more equalizers...

i feel that the reason that they have kind of disappeared from the consumer market is the fact that speakers and amplifiers/receivers have gotten so much better over the years...

russ

[slider908]

what do you guy think of the Behringer DSP8024 UltraCurve Pro. I am thinking of getting one. Where can i get the XLR to RCA adapters?

[slider908]

what do you guys think of the Behringer DSP8024 UltraCurve Pro. I'm thinking of getting one. Where can i get the XLR to RCA adapters?

[minn_male42]

rather than trying to adapt xlr to rca...use the trs connections and adapt that plug to rca...the 1/4" mono to rca adapter is pretty common and should be available at radio shack....

[heresy2guy]

I never worried about blowing any tweeters or woofers on my heresy IIs when using my proton. First of all, it had 6dBs of dynamic headroom, which means it'll produce 4 times the rated nominal output for musical peaks (the only other unit I know of that had this kind of reserve power is the NAD units of the same era) which is most likely MORE then the H/K 430 can put out - even with H/K's dual-power supply. On top of that, I always turned the loudness off past the 10 o'clock position on the dial. Third of all, I never went past the 2 o'clock position on the volume knob and it was only for a few seconds to see how loud it was. It was so loud that I couldn't stand it so I had to back it off but I never heard any distortion, thanks in part to he 6 dBs of dynamic headroom in the Proton. As a last safety resort, the Proton had an anti-clipping button that you can depress on the back of the receiver that was supposed to prevent clipping should the amplifier be overdriven to the point where even the 6 dBs of headroom fails to suffice the power requirements. To my knowledge, most amps seem to have a rather anemic 1.5 dBs of dynamic headroom and "highly" dynamic units seem to have 2.5 to 3 dBs of headroom, which is a far cry from the 6 to 7 dBs of headroom supplied by the Proton and NAD units of the 80s. Just how out of curiosity, I wonder how many dBs of headroom the H/K 430 that I just bought has???? Anybody know?

[HDBRbuilder]

Like I said, Heresy2guy, "whether you heed those words is up to you."

Just a little FYI here for ya though...all that headroom hoopla and the other measurements used when a manufacturer derives the outputs and distortion percentages and such for their products don't mean squat in reality because they are NOT measuring this with speakers, they are measuring it with a standard load on the output at particular flooded frequencies. Speakers are a completely different animal than what those SPECS and other hoopla are derived with. Granted, specs are a GOOD INDICATOR of expected performance, but they are a means to an end, NOT the end in itself! You can take any two amps whose stated specs and bells and whistles are identical, from any two manufacturers, and hook em into an already existing set-up, and what you hear...and what they are actually doing, will be two different things.

Granted, that the further an amp's power rating is DOWN the scale from the Heresys' max input rating, the less likely one is to blow a tweeter or a woofer, but it can still happen...especially if one gives it an assist by cranking up the tone controls severely beyond their "flat" position. There is NO "magic button" on the back of that 430 to keep it from happening either!