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[FIXED] Cornwall 1 bad crossover help


gsgleason
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1 hour ago, Travis In Austin said:

One would hope, it's a pretty simple answer.

 

Shoot me a PM and I will put you in touch with Roy Delgado, Jr., the guy that PWK gave his professional notebooks to, including crossover design and measurements, for Roy to carry on with. The guy who actually tests all of this stuff to see if these parts work as they claim or not. 

 

Apologize for the negative undercurrent that seems to appear with any mention of the word "capacitor." 

 

Frankly, I was interested in the heart of your question (which wasn't what capacitors should I replace my originals with), I thought it was that your understanding was that caps, balancing networks don't typically suffer a sudden failure resulting in a total loss of sound. Did anyone ever answer that? That's been my experience, other then blown caps that send a ribbon of foil at the end like a a popper. 

 

In the end, they are your speakers and you can put whatever you want in them. 

First of all I would like to thank Klipsch for having this forum! Without this forum I would never have learned of Roy's research which caps he has correctly identified for electric.

I also do not want to boil or provoke anything here. On the contrary, we are an interested and committed peaceful audiophile community.

What strikes me is that the exchange of ideas in the forum was simpler and easier when it was earlier about whether you prefer Sonicaps or Klipsch caps. But here the point is that you and I agree that we focus on polyester caps. Here are two freely available photos of actual xovers of Heresy 4 and Cornwall 4. 

You can clearly see polyester caps as recommended for the old Heritage speakers from Klipsch/Roy.


You can read MEA. The web defines MEA as „THE Type-MEA are constructed with metalized polyester film dielectric, copper-ply wire leads , outer wrapped with polyester film tape and ends sealed with epoxy resin , in non-inductive type.“

 

I am not an expert to judge if MEA types are normal polyester types or if it is a special type within the polyester family. I would be glad if someone here in the forum can give an answer. Then we would be even closer to the type recommended by Roy if MEA means something special.
Again...I respect the research work of Klipsch and especially Roy very much, you know that too, Travis.
But we shouldn't make a nimbus about things that can be soberly explained.

To your question about whether brands matter. I think certainly yes. But now polyester caps are not witchcraft and the demonstrably good brands that Klipsch also uses should let us hear fewer differences among themselves than if we were comparing different types and dielectrics.

I support the recommendations of Roy, but the topic creator can first approximate for a handful of dollars to test the polyester caps as a principle.

05484415-775C-4917-A21F-9B64AE3D3065.png

04DBF9D9-3904-4226-ADE8-91406F90E884.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

Someone is going to pay me to read all of that. 

We've been through this before Dean, and I had replied that no one pays me to write it.😎

 

Besides, I am afraid that my traumatic after-effects can be recognized in my texts. Because I was already imprisoned twice in a (German) capacitor jail.

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5 hours ago, gsgleason said:

 

Yes indeed.  I'm now researching capacitors that won't break the bank.

 

Jantzen, for example, doesn't make a 2 uf. They have 1.8 and 2.2.  Which should be considered?

Lest I forget, if you want to make it finally quite correct after the first phase of trying out the polyester types in principle, then the exact capacitance values are quite important. The reason is that they are connected in series, one after the other. In this way, deviations add up, which is not wanted and which can have an effect on the sound. Therefore, the first capacitor should already have the most accurate value possible...if you finally decide for this type.

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44 minutes ago, KT88 said:

First of all I would like to thank Klipsch for having this forum! Without this forum I would never have learned of Roy's research which caps he has correctly identified for electric.

I also do not want to boil or provoke anything here. On the contrary, we are an interested and committed peaceful audiophile community.

What strikes me is that the exchange of ideas in the forum was simpler and easier when it was earlier about whether you prefer Sonicaps or Klipsch caps. But here the point is that you and I agree that we focus on polyester caps. Here are two freely available photos of actual xovers of Heresy 4 and Cornwall 4. 

You can clearly see polyester caps as recommended for the old Heritage speakers from Klipsch/Roy.


You can read MEA. The web defines MEA as „THE Type-MEA are constructed with metalized polyester film dielectric, copper-ply wire leads , outer wrapped with polyester film tape and ends sealed with epoxy resin , in non-inductive type.“

 

I am not an expert to judge if MEA types are normal polyester types or if it is a special type within the polyester family. I would be glad if someone here in the forum can give an answer. Then we would be even closer to the type recommended by Roy if MEA means something special.
Again...I respect the research work of Klipsch and especially Roy very much, you know that too, Travis.
But we shouldn't make a nimbus about things that can be soberly explained.

To your question about whether brands matter. I think certainly yes. But now polyester caps are not witchcraft and the demonstrably good brands that Klipsch also uses should let us hear fewer differences among themselves than if we were comparing different types and dielectrics.

I support the recommendations of Roy, but the topic creator can first approximate for a handful of dollars to test the polyester caps as a principle.

05484415-775C-4917-A21F-9B64AE3D3065.png

04DBF9D9-3904-4226-ADE8-91406F90E884.jpeg

 

Metalized film capacitors have a thin metal coating on the surface of the dielectric, when there is a fault the metal vaporizes leaving a hole that has been 'cleared' so no shorts can occur. It keeps the capacitors in service longer due to less failures but over time if too many 'clearings' has happened you can get reduced capacitance, and increased ESR.

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13 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

Metalized film capacitors have a thin metal coating on the surface of the dielectric, when there is a fault the metal vaporizes leaving a hole that has been 'cleared' so no shorts can occur. It keeps the capacitors in service longer due to less failures but over time if too many 'clearings' has happened you can get reduced capacitance, and increased ESR.

Is the regular Polyester cap one can purchase at Mouser, e.g. the Nichicon series I linked above such a type?

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13 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

This assumes sufficient voltage to clear the fault, not always easy with a loudspeaker typically running in the milliwatt range. The clearing action is basically arcing, and presents as noise. 

 

Clearing doesn't require much current at all, it depends on the thickness of the metal film. The fault that occurs is usually the current that vaporizes, it's not really an arcing action that heals it although an arc is a fault mode which is cleared by the vaporization. The metal literally vaporizes a hole and this only lasts for an extremely short duration until the fault has been 'cleared'. 

 

I have visited a few capacitor plants and have spoken to many engineers that design these capacitors, this was always how the mechanism was explained as they were trying to sell their 'superior products' to us we had to endure all the technical explanations for the technology. I mean don't get me wrong it's very interesting but after a while it's like email me your data and I'll look over it.

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8 minutes ago, gsgleason said:

Holy hell, people. 

 

Anyway, I loosened and tightened all the screws and re-flowed all the solder joints.  It made no difference. 

 

What is this JEM stuff I'm hearing about?  What do they offer, and how much?


Bummer. 
 

He sells capacitor kits. 
 

(412) 401-6915

 

If polypropylene doesn’t scare you, you can use the 1% caps from Dayton Audio. 
 

www.partsexpress.com

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2 minutes ago, gsgleason said:

Holy hell, people. 

 

Anyway, I loosened and tightened all the screws and re-flowed all the solder joints.  It made no difference. 

 

What is this JEM stuff I'm hearing about?  What do they offer, and how much?

I don't want to stir up the hornet's nest again. JEM is Klipsch's authorized dealer for capacitors. The price for 6 polyester capacitors for the Lascala AA xover I have mentioned above in a post.
JEM offers the exact capacitance values which are not standard values e.g. 2 mF and for my xover e.g. 13 mF.
If you want to test if you like the polyester types then do it first with the Mouser caps from Nichicon and/or Kemet for a small fraction of the cost.

I like the polyester types a lot, but if I could find good affordable PIO I would give them a try in the future.

With the Polyester Types you will get closest to the original Klipsch sound as Captainbeefheart also mentioned above.

 

https://jemperformanceaudio.com

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22 minutes ago, gsgleason said:

Holy hell, people. 

 

Anyway, I loosened and tightened all the screws and re-flowed all the solder joints.  It made no difference. 

 

What is this JEM stuff I'm hearing about?  What do they offer, and how much?

Yes the end is definitely here…

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22 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

Here is the difference between Polyester and Paper in Oil and Ceramic for fun.spacer.png

 

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Thanks for that, CBH. The line re the PIO looks narrower and therefore cleaner but the difference to the Polyester type seems to be not too big. Anyway the ear is sometimes more sensitive than the ear.

In the past you posted the differences of Polypropylene vs. Polyester types regarding their ESR which was remarkable. 

 

How would Polypropylene looks like in your current comparison on the screen?

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