[FIXED] Cornwall 1 bad crossover help

[geezin']

Is it helpful to the OP with his problem to bicker on minutiae? isn't that the purpose here,to help the guy?

[captainbeefheart]

1 minute ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So why bother with the oil then?

 

The oil helps cool the capacitors, it displaces air to help prevent corrosion and reduce the chance of destructive corona.  It increases the voltage breakdown for a given dielectric thickness. 

[Travis In Austin]

39 minutes ago, KT88 said:

Travis, I hate to disagree. But what gsgleason buys from JEM are the exact polyester types I recommended, and which Roy identified as the most ideal types for the Heritage Series. The JEM polyester caps are not voodoo, nor are they wound by virgins under a full moon. Sorry. I just want to give my 2cent. The Nicichon polyester types are top notch caps beyond all quality doubt. At JEM they cost $90 for the AA frequency crossover, for six polyester caps, three per xover. I had inquired with JEM. In my case it would have been double with customs, shipping and import tax.
Sorry, I would buy (first!) the types for a fraction of the money from Mouser and (for the first try) accept a slight deviation of the values.

It is not a risky investment to see if you like the polyester types at all from Mouser. Buying the same ones from JEM at its price is risky if you don't like them in principal. 

If you like the Mouser grades and want the exact values you can always buy the JEM ones later...or PIO for probably less cost than what JEM is asking for Mylar.

 

So are you vouching that what you are offering as a substitute doesn't not change the overall voltage transfer, and thus doesn't change the spectral balance of the speaker? Maybe if you have the right type of cap there is no difference in way they sound between brands?

 

 

[Deang]

5 minutes ago, geezin' said:

Is it helpful to the OP with his problem to bicker on minutiae? isn't that the purpose here,to help the guy?

There is nothing more important in life than this issue. 
 

The OP is working his problem. Bickering is how we pass the time. 

[captainbeefheart]

Simplified for the OP:

 

If you want the speakers to be 'authentic' use a polyester film capacitor, brand shouldn't matter so long as they are from a reputable manufacturer and are within tolerance. Doesn't matter where you buy from IMHO.

 

All other capacitors using a different dielectric may 'color' the speaker not giving you the 'authentic' sound as intended by the engineers that designed the system.

[Travis In Austin]

4 minutes ago, geezin' said:

Is it helpful to the OP with his problem to bicker on minutiae? isn't that the purpose here,to help the guy?

One would hope, it's a pretty simple answer.

 

Shoot me a PM and I will put you in touch with Roy Delgado, Jr., the guy that PWK gave his professional notebooks to, including crossover design and measurements, for Roy to carry on with. The guy who actually tests all of this stuff to see if these parts work as they claim or not. 

 

Apologize for the negative undercurrent that seems to appear with any mention of the word "capacitor." 

 

Frankly, I was interested in the heart of your question (which wasn't what capacitors should I replace my originals with), I thought it was that your understanding was that caps, balancing networks don't typically suffer a sudden failure resulting in a total loss of sound. Did anyone ever answer that? That's been my experience, other then blown caps that send a ribbon of foil at the end like a a popper. 

 

In the end, they are your speakers and you can put whatever you want in them. 

[Travis In Austin]

4 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

from a reputable manufacturer

That's a 10 page thread in itself. 

 

However, apparently Mouser is where you want to be, good solid Texas company. 

[CWelsh]

13 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

The OP is working his problem. Bickering is how we pass the time. 

Has anyone considered creating a sticky thread entitled, "What Shall We Argue About Today?" It would be entertaining.

 

🤣

[oldtimer]

9 minutes ago, CWelsh said:

Has anyone considered creating a sticky thread entitled, "What Shall We Argue About Today?" It would be entertaining.

 

🤣

We'd only argue about what to argue about.

[Thaddeus Smith]

Make sure you guys remember to take a break.

 

 

[Travis In Austin]

29 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Low.

"Only the personal stuff draws my attention."   Ring a bell?

You are out of your element, Dean doesn't need a smiley face from me to know I'm kidding. I have met him in person, and we have discussed by phone many, many topics, including philosophy, bourbon, higher education, and a host of other things in addition to RF7s, horns, balancing networks, and capacitors. 

 

Not only that, he will tell you that his daughter is extremely precise. 

[Travis In Austin]

1 minute ago, oldtimer said:

We'd only argue about what to argue about.

Or a poll would break out

[captainbeefheart]

Mention Capacitors or Cables and watch them all crawl out from the woodwork

[Deang]

8 minutes ago, CWelsh said:

Has anyone considered creating a sticky thread entitled, "What Shall We Argue About Today?" It would be entertaining.

 

🤣

Don’t give Travis any ideas. 
 

I would call it “Bonehead Jail”. You round everyone up and they can only discuss capacitors. Time spent there would be determined by severity of the infraction. 

[oldtimer]

2 minutes ago, Travis In Austin said:

You are out of your element, Dean doesn't need a smiley face from me to know I'm kidding.

If only you understood more about some of the rest of us. 

[Travis In Austin]

4 hours ago, gsgleason said:

 

Yes. 

 

My concern is that the treble just suddenly cut out, and it's my understanding that capacitors don't just *poof* stop working.

 

 

I haven't ever seen that, but that doesn't mean anything. You mentioned "busted up" pair. As in might have been dropped? Or more cosmetic. 

 

@Crankysoldermeister might be able to answer that specific question in the context of a balancing network like the B2,

[Travis In Austin]

5 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

If only you understood more about some of the rest of us. 

Uh, I think I can figure it out, what's what amongst who for a number of factors. Most significantly, the flags. 

[Travis In Austin]

9 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

Don’t give Travis any ideas. 
 

I would call it “Bonehead Jail”. You round everyone up and they can only discuss capacitors. Time spent there would be determined by severity of the infraction. 

You would be required to listen to the caps in my white paper and describe the differences, AND, learn how to measure each piece of wire to be the magic length and be able to discuss the best color and for what application, AND discuss what is the best solder to use.  

[oldtimer]

1 minute ago, Travis In Austin said:

Uh, I think I can figure it out, what's what amongst who for a number of factors. Most significantly, the flags. 

Good for you.  

[KT88]

51 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said:

 

Paper capacitors are smoother in the Tweeter circuit. The very early Klipsch crossovers used paper and then switched to polyester. Polyester as a dielectric has a more grainy sound to them due to their higher non-linearity. Paper seems to always test as 'smooth' during listening and I am willing to wager it's because of cleaner linearity of the paper capacitors.

 

There is a simple test with a scope if you want to play around with seeing this phenomena with your eyes. Ceramics are the worst and come out as an S shape badly as it's extremely non-linear giving the highest distortion.

 

I am not knocking polyester, most probably will never hear a difference but others here have noticed how smooth PIO caps can be in the Klipsch crossovers compared to polyester. I heard Dean's theory about the self heal attribute to metallized types but I feel all polyesters inherently have this sound due to the dielectric properties.

Thank you for the explanation. I have learned something again. PIO has unfortunately practical issues, either new and crazy expensive or vintage and one has to check exactly whether they are still good in all respects.