E-Bay feedback

[T2K]

I would like everyone's opinion regarding leaving feedback for a seller that I just had an experience dealing with. I'll try to make it short.

First of all, a sellers feedback is THE factor in my deciding whether I buy from a seller or not. I feel that it is my RESPONSIBILITY to leave appropriate feedback for a seller so that the next buyer that comes along will have the benefit of that sellers past behavior.

I recently bought a tube amp and tuner from an E-Bay seller. Paid electronically within 24 hours. Spoke via e-mail with seller several times expressing my concerns for secure packaging, offering to pay extra for secure packaging and also that I was in no hurry for the items. The seller took me up on the extra cash for packaging offer, and I paid him ten (10) additional dollars.

I advised the seller that I worked 7 days a week and that tracking information would be helpful in arranging for someone to be here when the items arrived. No e-mails later, the packages arrived unannounced.

The LK-72 was wrapped front to back with one piece of large bubble-wrap. Next came another layer of bubble wrap running east to west. A little foam nuttery was in the bottom of the box and that box was fitted tightly into another box.

The box was dropped by UPS with sufficient force that the rear input panel of the amp was bent around the transformers and the transformers broke free of their speed clip/screw mounts. Trace evidence in the form of an amp imprint was present on the side of the box.

The seller agreed to take the amp/tuner back and has refunded my money.

As much as I hate to see a perfectly good vintage integrated amp mistreated, that doesn't really bother me so much as does the amount of time I have wasted unnecessarily. My personal time is very valuable to me and this could have been avoided had the seller taken the time to care for my items.

The seller has sold many items and presently has a Scott 222-C amp on E-Bay. He should have known better.

What do you think? I like to give credit where credit is due.

Keith

[Deang]

Packing should be done in such a fashion as to provide adequate protection from normal to semi-rough handling. No amount of packing material will give adequate protection when UPS decides to throw a package from a moving truck.

If the amp had not been abused by UPS, it would have been delivered in good condition. Also, the seller refunded your money, which I consider amazing. He could have told you this problem was between you and UPS. Believe it or not -- but I think this guy deserves an excellent feedback rating.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I almost agree. The guy was a stand up guy in giving the refund, but did he have the item insured payable to himself?

Maybe something to the nature of "packaging problem, but seller gave complete refund, very honest!"

He does deserve a positive in that he did refund the money. I really respect that.

The only problem is that when a seller has a lot of feedback, I only read the negative stuff.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Chris

[T2K]

The guy advertised an item(s) for sale, with pictures, for a set price. I accepted his offer. I expressed my concern to him regarding packaging, over and above the requirements set forth by the carrier, and paid him accordingly. The seller did not package the items, which at that point were my items, to specs meeting his carrier choice requirements, disregarding the standards requested and paid for by myself, which resulted in damage to my property. And I should 'Praise' him for that?

Who raised you people?

Keith

[J M O N]

TTK: The real question may be "who raised you"? You ask for people's OPINION on what they think you should do, then you chastise them for not answering the way you wanted. Shame on you.

At the risk of being chastised, I will give you my OPINION: I don't think this case warrants negative feedback, because in the end, the seller was honest and you did not get burned. Sure, you lost out on getting what you wanted, and you lost out on your time and effort, but at least you did not lose any money in this deal. Worse things can happen on eBay. I think leaving neutral feedback would be acceptable provided you explain that the unit was damaged in shipping (due to less than optimum packaging) but that the seller did refund your money.

[foldedhorn]

I agree with JMON if you already had your answer why did you waste OUR time in posting.

[HDBRbuilder]

Keith,

I never just let the seller determine HOW to pack something...especially if I am being charged EXTRA for the packing. I would suggest that in the future you ALWAYS discuss the way you want it packed for shipping, and if it will require extra money to have it done so...then if it arrives NOT packed the way you requested, you have a leg to stand on. NEVER leave the packing technique up to the seller...especially if you got one helluva deal...because the seller is already out some expected money, and he KNOWS it! Just a suggestion.

[lynnm]

The tone of your comments makes it clear to me that you had already made up your mind on this issue before posting. FWIW it sounds from your own description that the seller had packed the amplifier decently and no amount of care would have prevented the damage done considering that it was thrown/dropped hard enough to separate a transformer from its mounts.

Your disappointment is understandable but that does not make UPS's abuse of the shipment the seller's fault. His response in refunding your money is more than reasonable. Fairness dictates a positive feedback.

[T2K]

OOPS, I forgot to insert the big smiley face with the big grin to indicate that the statement was made in jest! Sorry, I have now taken care of that.

I asked the question because I wanted others opinion/experiences using E-Bay to help myself determine if I should use E-Bay in the future or if I should consider E-Bay to be a crap shoot. I assumed that that was the purpose of the 'FEEDBACK' feature found there. I utilized that feature in determining whether or not I would buy from this particular seller.

It appears that the question may be more involving/harder to resolve in this medium than I had originally anticipated.

Bottom line is this: My recent experience is history. Big deal. What is not history is my posting of feedback for this seller. I feel that it is incumbent upon me to leave appropiate feedback concerning my transaction so that others in the future can utilize my feedback in making THEIR decision as to whether or not THEY will buy from this seller. You know, sorta like members here discussing internet sellers that are reputable/not reputable.

The answer that I was looking for here is not for my benefit only, but for the benefit of others as well. Whether anyone realizes it or not, feedback will eventually determine whether E-Bay is a reliable source for buying/selling or if E-Bay is in fact a crap shoot.

What I am trying desperately to say is that I personally take this feedback thing seriously. My words/actions convey to others my integrity, just as this sellers integrity should be reflected in his feedback. Thats the way my mama raised me. YMMV.

Keith

(smiley's inserted appropriately)

[T2K]

I took a coffee break in the middle of my above post and missed HDRB's and lynnm's post. Thank you both for your response.

Andy, I should forward to you my e-mails to this seller regarding packaging. It would be enlightening to you and others sharing your packaging thoughts (BTW, while in high school I worked for 2 years packaging tens of thousands of parts for a construction equipment dealer. Ever packed a $6000 turbo?). Allow me to give you an example. About the same time that I bought this amp/tuner I bought a KSP-S6 from boll-weevil pawn for $89.89. I asked for and offered to pay extra for UPS proof packaging. The total cost to me for the item/shipping was $100.35 (Ark to AL). The speaker came in a box that measures 26L X 17W X 20D. The speaker measures 15 1/8 X 13 3/8 X 7 3/8. Wrapped well and tons of nuts. For no extra charge. Great seller! I left appropiate feedback.

There is also a long story about the return/refund. The seller knew he did not package the items to meet specs outlined at the UPS site, much less allowing for the extra payment I made which was an amount that he suggested after my request. He stated himself that UPS would probably not pay my claim. Only after I advised him that a UPS Rep was coming to inspect the package did he offer to take the amp ONLY back. After splainin' to him the tuner was useless to me without the amp did he offer to take BOTH pieces back. Then he wanted me to return the items to him after which he would refund my money.

There's more, but now I'm beginning to be sorry I ever started this thread.

Again, the seller has sold many, many items on E-bay and should be privy to UPS's handling. One layer of bubble wrap and two thin pieces of cardboard with no 'crushspace' do not offer sufficient protection for 20 pounds of iron/30 pounds of amp.

Someone just exercised the Buy-It-Now option for this seller's Scott 222-C amp on E-Bay. I wonder if my feedback detailing my recent experience with this seller would have affected this buyer's decision?

Keith

[Deang]

Don't be sorry you started the thread -- it's been informative. Seems this kind of thing is coming up more and more.

Maybe you should just ask yourself this: If he had packed to your expectations -- would the amp have survived?

Try to see his position too. He gave you the money back, and he now has a total POS:)

Maybe just go with a neutral?

[BEC]

I believe that after you got your money back you should let him off. Even if you think he didn't "UPS proof" the package, he made you whole by refunding the money. He probably will pack better in the future since he is out an amp. Also if you post negative feedback on him, he will probably post a reply to your feedback saying something like- - Gave the guy his money back and still he leaves negative. What more can I do?

Bob

[Malcolm]

I would give the guy a neutral and describe in the feedback, as well as I could in the limited space available, what went right and what went wrong. You are not out any money. The item was as advertised. But you didn't get what you bid on because he did not pack/ship the item appropriately. The way it was packaged was inadequate for any shipper. If he had double boxed it with sufficient material between the two boxes IMHO you would be listening to your LK-72 today.

[lynnm]

I contend that no amount of packing short of the special canisters used by the American military to protect nuclear weapons being shipped willy nilly about the US would have protected that amp. Even if the bloody thing had been cocooned within an inner box air cushioned from the outer box the accelerative/decelerative forces that would tear a transformer off a chassis would have played hell. Don't believe it ?? Why does the safety code require seat belts in the steel cocoons that we tear about the countryside in ?

Gimme a break guys - Like it or not SH.

You want someone to crap on ? Crap on UPS! They destroyed the amp not the shipper!

[Malcolm]

I think the point here is that anybody with a modicum of experience knows that some things should not be shipped UPS, and those things that are should be packed in a manner that gives them a reasonable chance of arriving intact. OTOH it is amazing how clueless many folks are about what consitutes proper packaging. You just have to go to your local post office in the weeks before Christmas to see it.

[fini]

Who, then, do most trust to safely ship a beast such as an amp? Soon I hope to be sending my 500c down the coast to Mike Zuccaro in San Diego. His (emphatic) recomendation was to use bubble wrap---lots of it. Did he want the tubes pulled? Didn't matter to him. Nor did double boxing. Just lots of bubble wrap (more than just two layers).

fini

[Malcolm]

My experience with both UPS and USPS is that they are fine as long as you package the item properly. That means packaging it with the assumption that it is going to get dropped a few feet. I have shipped lots of electronics and speakers as large as Heresys both ways with no problems. Anything bigger or much heavier goes freight on a pallet.

I have never had to ship tube gear. But I would probably remove the tubes, wrap them individually in bubble wrap, put them all in a box, and put the box inside the chassis. Tubes don't have a lot of mass. But my guess is the right bump might just dislodge them from their sockets.

FWIW if you don't know if you can package the item well enough to survive the journey, there is always the option of taking it to a store that specializes in packing and shipping. They certainly have more experience than most of us plus a motivation to get the item there in one piece.

And, of course, be sure to insure for full value. Sometimes, despite anything you do, s**t happens.

[T2K]

I wish that I could relate all of the facts to all of you here as they allow for a few good laughs. How ironic it was that when faced with the same circumstances reversed, the seller objected.

I appreciate the responses by everyone here, and would not have asked for your opinions had I not valued them. I consider all of you here my friends and I enjoy the interaction I find here.

I hope for all of you good health and prosperity for the coming New Year.

Keith