Laptop as source?

[babadono]

34 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

Using a volume control in the digital domain throws away bits. Just sayin….

What?

[Jeff Matthews]

Bought this: S.M.S.L SU-1 MQA MQA-CD Audio Decoder AK4493S XU316 768kHz/32Bit DSD512 Hi-Res DAC https://a.co/d/eQRnOaR

 

Do I use USB to USB from laptop to DAC?

 

If my laptop has both USB and a USB C port, can I use USB C from laptop to USB in the DAC?

 

 

[Marvel]

1 hour ago, Jeff Matthews said:

 

If my laptop has both USB and a USB C port, can I use USB C from laptop to USB in the DAC?

Should be able to.

[Marvel]

I have three different audio interfaces I can use on with my computers/laptops. They are for recording on my computer, so they each have an adc and dac. I keep moving up the chain. The first is a 2 Channel, that now serves on my PC. I bought a Presonus 4 in/out at a used book/record/cd/odd electronics store. I took a  chance, but it works great. I have a setup where I can record a stereo track/video on my phone, using good microphones while simultaneously recording 4 separate tracks to my laptop for later adjustments/mix down.

 

The third is an 8 input interface, bought new. They all work fine, and I often use any of the three simply as a dac. I don't do anything over 96k, and usually do 88.2. Don't overthink it.

[Shakeydeal]

9 hours ago, babadono said:

What?

This is some good reading for you. 
 

https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

[Jeff Matthews]

13 hours ago, Marvel said:

Should be able to.

 

I'll try.  What I don't understand is this:  If you're playing music on a laptop, the sound will come out of the speakers, or if you plug in a set of earphones, through the earphone jack.  I did not realize that if you plug in a USB device, the sound will be sent to the external device.  I thought that plugging in a USB device would have no effect on the music either playing through the laptop speakers or the headphones.

 

[rplace]

2 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

What I don't understand is this:  If you're playing music on a laptop, the sound will come out of the speakers, or if you plug in a set of earphones, through the earphone jack.  I did not realize that if you plug in a USB device, the sound will be sent to the external device. 

 

Not the sound your hear, but the data to be converted by the external DAC, bypassing the computer's DAC. Might sound like I'm splitting hairs but it is a huge difference. Not anything, in any form, that your brain can make sense of.

 

I didn't read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been said....but it does not quite sound to me like you ( @Jeff Matthews) quite get this. Your computer has a DAC in it. That is why your computer speakers, headphones form headphone jack, etc. can make Analog sound. The DAC has C=converted the D=Digital bits (00110101011010101s) to A=Analog .The stuff you, as a human can hear.

 

When you connect your computer via USB to your External DAC, you bypass the computer's DAC (possibly less quality, debatable) and some software (a driver) on the computer let's your computer and External DAC talk to each other. Now the computer can send it's digital bits to the external DAC for conversion to Analog for your ears to hear and your brain interpret.

 

In case it is not painfully obvious yet you should have alight bulb showing above your head and drawing the conclusion, counselor, that a "Streamer" or "Bridge" is nothing more than a computer that can take digital bits from somewhere - Internet, computer, Network Attached Storage (NAS) and give it to your DAC for conversion. The DAC may have an amp built in or you may connect it like any other piece of gear as a source.

 

Think in CD player terms. Back in the 80s/90s. You had:

• A CD with data, no music, just 1s and zeros much like your computer files or internet stuff form Qobuz.
  • To get different data you had to change the CD in the player
• The CD player also had a way to get the data from the CD to the DAC. The laser and associated software
  • This is kind of like the streamer/bridge, not really but close enough
• The CD player's DAC did what they always do
  • Convert Digital to Analog

<<<<< end of trying to help Jeff, time for some pot stirring and general audiophile (I hate that term) anarchy >>>>>>>

 

Therefore, logically, nothing can make the data sound "differently" in the digital domain. The data is simply data. As long as the data gets there correctly and in time (solved probably 40 years ago) you don't need a $10,000 dollar USB cable, or audio quality switches in your network or fancy linear power supply for your computer/streamer supplying those bits to the DAC. But the industry as a whole would love you to think so.

 

A turntable is a system comprised of many parts, not just a single thing called a record player. So is a tape deck (rollers, heads, motors). While a record is playing, jumping up and down on a poorly isolated floor, a noisy motor, bad groundings, the sensitivity of the stylus and pick up, dust, pressing quality of the vinyl, plus many other things can all influence the sound the turntable produces. Everything is in the analogue domain.

 

The so called external DAC. It is not one thing either, it is really a collection of parts making up a system. Some in the digital domain and some in the analogue domain.

 

It is the implementation of the DAC chip and everything that happens after the digital is converted to Analog that you can hear. The Wi-Fi/wire getting the data to your DACs analog side matters 0 (zero)  not 1 (one) bit - pun intended. But people that don't know each other will debate that endlessly on the Internet because they Believe it does and they have spent the money and want it to be true. Expectation biases and confirmation biases are very powerful and very real. As I get older I find it almost as interesting and entertaining as music and the Hi-Fi hobby. 

[Jeff Matthews]

17 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

Not the sound your hear, but the data to be converted by the external DAC, bypassing the computer's DAC. Might sound like I'm splitting hairs but it is a huge difference. Not anything, in any form, that your brain can make sense of.

 

I didn't read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been said....but it does not quite sound to me like you ( @Jeff Matthews) quite get this. Your computer has a DAC in it. That is why your computer speakers, headphones form headphone jack, etc. can make Analog sound. The DAC has C=converted the D=Digital bits (00110101011010101s) to A=Analog .The stuff you, as a human can hear.

 

When you connect your computer via USB to your External DAC, you bypass the computer's DAC (possibly less quality, debatable) and some software (a driver) on the computer let's your computer and External DAC talk to each other. Now the computer can send it's digital bits to the external DAC for conversion to Analog for your ears to hear and your brain interpret.

 

In case it is not painfully obvious yet you should have alight bulb showing above your head and drawing the conclusion, counselor, that a "Streamer" or "Bridge" is nothing more than a computer that can take digital bits from somewhere - Internet, computer, Network Attached Storage (NAS) and give it to your DAC for conversion. The DAC may have an amp built in or you may connect it like any other piece of gear as a source.

 

Think in CD player terms. Back in the 80s/90s. You had:

• A CD with data, no music, just 1s and zeros much like your computer files or internet stuff form Qobuz.
  • To get different data you had to change the CD in the player
• The CD player also had a way to get the data from the CD to the DAC. The laser and associated software
  • This is kind of like the streamer/bridge, not really but close enough
• The CD player's DAC did what they always do
  • Convery Digital to Analog

<<<<< end of trying to help Jeff, time for some pot stirring and general audiophile (I hate that term) anarchy >>>>>>>

 

Therefore, logically, nothing can make the data sound "differently" in the digital domain. The data is simply data. As long as the data gets there correctly and in time (solved probably 40 years ago) you don't need a $10,000 dollar USB cable, or audio quality switches in your network or fancy linear power supply for your computer/streamer supplying those bits to the DAC. But the industry as a whole would love you to think so.

 

A turntable is a system comprised of many parts, not just a single thing called a record player. So is a tape deck (rollers, heads, motors). While a record is playing, jumping up and down on a poorly isolated floor, a noisy motor, bad groundings, the sensitivity of the stylus and pick up, dust, pressing quality of the vinyl, plus many other things can all influence the sound the turntable produces. Everything is in the analogue domain.

 

The so called external DAC. It is not one thing either, it is really a collection of parts making up a system. Some in the digital domain and some in the analogue domain.

 

It is the implementation of the DAC chip and everything that happens after the digital is converted to Analog that you can hear. The Wi-Fi/wire getting the data to your DACs analog side matters 0 (zero)  not 1 (one) bit - pun intended. But people that don't know each other will debate that endlessly on the Internet because the Believe it does and they have spent the money and want it to be true. Expectation biases and confirmation biases are very powerful and very real. As I get older I find it almost as interesting and entertaining as music and the Hi-Fi hobby. 

I did generally understand this point, but you brought it home a lot better.

 

The main question I had is whether the signal will bypass the laptop's DAC and go to my SU-1 DAC if I connect my laptop's USB-C port to the SU-1's USB 2.0 port.

[babadono]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I did generally understand this point, but you brought it home a lot better.

 

The main question I had is whether the signal will bypass the laptop's DAC and go to my SU-1 DAC if I connect my laptop's USB-C port to the SU-1's USB 2.0 port.

Yes it will, at least that is my understanding. I'm no expert..

[rplace]

8 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

if I connect my laptop's USB-C port

 

This I really don't know. I could probably read up on that particular DAC but I'm pretty lazy. Every time I've done it it has been A (2.0/1.0 or 3.0 below) on the computer's end and B (USB 2.0 Type-B) on the DAC's. But I would not be surprised to learn of a C to B since C is becoming more and more prominent. 

 

Does your DAC only have "B" or does it have "C"? If C then I'd expect they have that (c to c) nut cracked. Post a link to your DAC or a picture of the back's connections plainly in view.

 

[Jeff Matthews]

The DAC accepts USB Type A.  I'll be finding out soon enough.  I'm just trying to jump ahead of delivery to see that I have the right cables.

[babadono]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-su-1-stereo-dac-review.44029/

Is this the SU-1 that you are getting?

[Jeff Matthews]

2 minutes ago, babadono said:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-su-1-stereo-dac-review.44029/

Is this the SU-1 that you are getting?

Yes

[babadono]

So you will be going USB type A(laptop) the USB type C (DAC) if I see correctly. Says A to C cable included. That might have been a courtesy to Amir at ASR.

[Marvel]

Jeff, the coaxial and optical connections on the DAC are digital. The usb type C port will connect to either a usb C on your computer/laptop.

 

If you are running MS Windows, in your sound settings you will choose the DAC as an output.

 

Your usb on the laptop must provide the power. Not all do.

[rplace]

1 hour ago, Jeff Matthews said:

if I connect my laptop's USB-C port to the SU-1's USB 2.0 port.

 

That sounds to me like your laptop has USB-C, correct? I only see USB-C on the DAC. So I would be shocked if a C to C cable did not work. Like @Marvel says it will need power. Absent that, if any port on your laptop can charge your phone, use that one. Try not to use a USB Hub between laptop and DAV, if you can avoid it. I've had on and off problems with CD-players for ripping CDs, Monitors, Microphones, etc. with a chain of USB devices that went Laptop>>cable>>USB Hub>>cable>>Device. I also seem to remember (scary) a previous Dell Laptop that had USB-C/Thunderbolt dock port and 1 USB-A port that was powered and two USB-A ports that were not powered. So try your cell phone on all ports of your laptop and see if any/all charge while you wait for the DAC to show up.

 

If you really want to cover all of your bases pick these up....super handy once you have them. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BJ8YQ2LM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

 

[the real Duke Spinner]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:49 AM, wuzzzer said:

I DJed a couple dances over the past few years doing that.  I have Amazon Music Unlimited and I downloaded each song I was going to play in the highest format that was available.  I connected a 1/8” to stereo RCA cable to my receiver.  Worked great and sounded fantastic.

 

I listened at home first and was really impressed.  I have no idea what DAC my laptop has.  It can’t be that high end since it’s only a $300 HP laptop.

 

You shouldn’t need a pre-amp if you were connecting it directly to a power amp.

I gave a fantastic QuuckSilver pre sitting unused

My Holiday CD goes right to the Crown K2

[babadono]

9 hours ago, rplace said:

That sounds to me like your laptop has USB-C, correct?

Oops sorry missed that point...so USB C to USB C.

[JohnA]

On 3/18/2024 at 1:09 PM, Jeff Matthews said:

I did generally understand this point, but you brought it home a lot better.

 

The main question I had is whether the signal will bypass the laptop's DAC and go to my SU-1 DAC if I connect my laptop's USB-C port to the SU-1's USB 2.0 port.

 

There will probably be a driver or software setting that will make it so.  I doubt every/any digital stream running through the computer is supplied to any usb port all the time. 

[Marvel]

On 3/18/2024 at 4:46 AM, Shakeydeal said:

This is some good reading for you. 
 

https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

This is why most major audio consoles have 32 bit processing internally. It also gives them headroom.