m00n Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Ok as most of you know, I didn't win the first set of belles because I didn't meet the reserve price, nor did the guy even bother to respond to my emails. And to add insult to injury synthfreek pointed out that the seller reposted them the very next day at a lower price from his original. Was still higher than what I bid, but not a whole lot off from my original bid. Eh what ever.... However, I was successfull on another set that were up there. Here is what the owner had to say about them. Beautiful one of a kind walnut Belle Klipsch speakers. Have all original paperwork and in perfect condition. Shipping is to be paid by the buyer. I am willing to drive up to 200 miles from Charlotte, NC to insure safe transfer of ownership. When I get them, I will take pics and post them on my web site. But for now, here is the only pic I have of them which is the one from eBay. I hope it doesn't seem arragant that I started this thread because it's not meant to be. I simply want to try and confine all my questions into this one thread. It will make it much easier to keep track of all your guys much appreciated help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 Ok first question... This may make some of you cringe but... Would it be considered sacreligous to change the color of the grill cloth on the horn cabinet from that tan color to black? Would that cause them too loose value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 8, 2003 Author Share Posted March 8, 2003 Second question. What kind of mods are there for these? I know there are crossover mods right? I have seen NOZ's La Scala crossover he made. BTW NOZ, why did you change out your other crossovers? What sound quality did it change and make better? Also I have heard someting about horn damping? What is that for? If I am correct in my assumption, it would be to tone down the harshness? These mods as with the grill cloth, do they cause the belles to loose value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Dude, you are in for it now -- you are about to enter the 'Heritage Zone'. DIY Hell baby -- you're gonna love it. I like the tan grill cloth -- it's a nice contrast. You want to keep the material original, and your best bet is contacting Klipsch for a replacement if you want to change color. I wouldn't worry about them losing value by changing the color. However, I bet changing that cloth could be a pain in the arse -- it's probably glued in. I don't have any experience messing with Heritage crossovers, but there are plenty here who do. There has got to be at least a 100 threads about this between here, 'odds and mods', and 'updating older speakers'. Same with the damping thing. Whatever changes you end up doing -- just make sure you keep the original boards intact so you can put everything back to original. My experience over the last year upgrading crossovers for Dahlquist DQ-10's and my RF-7's has taught me that doing it brings significant improvements. Lowered noise floor, and complete zeroing out of the grain -- resulting in mirror smooth treble and even more low level detail. I don't know if these results will be found with Heritage however -- wait 3 months and I'll tell you, because after I get caught up -- my Cornwalls are next. I don't know what year your Belles were made -- fiberglass or plastic resin horns are probably not going to need the damping that the old metal lenses need. If you are still curious about this -- find my recent thread called, "Hyde Banished". It's probably just a page or two back. Heck, I'll find it and just bump it. I don't know what you are going to power them with. Try to cheat them and they will punish you. Start saving for a tube integrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Moon: On mine, the upper front cover comes off with just four screws after the horns are removed, & the grill cloth is stapled on from the back. I am not sure about the bottom covers. However, once you get them, I think you will like the Cane grill. It seems to be prefered. It gives it a richer look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndH Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 m00n, I would follow the advice from Dean damping metal horns. Before i changed from metal horns to plastic horns i always asked myself what people call ringing of horns. Now i believe i have a clue what they mean. I replaced the K-400 horn lens with the 120 degree dispersion EV SM-120A horns and i'm very satisfied with the wider dispersion. The EV horns are about 17" deep with the K 55-M driver and about 26" wide. You should modify in this case the network with a simple to do filter network (one resistor and one cap). Djk could help with this thing. But first i would install your speakers and amp and listen a few weeks before testing a wide dispersion horn. But i for myself go never back to the K-400 horn lens. I would try this mod especially in smaller rooms. But for now place them first right and listen a while and enjoy. Later you can better judge if a mod is worth to keep. Bernd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 m00n, Again Congrats on your beautiful babies. You need to contact HornEd! The reputed expert on Horn speakers on the Klipsch B/B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Moon, Just leave them as they are with the possible exception of changing out the grille cloth if you desire to do so. Don't jump into a bunch of mods until you have listened to them for awhile...you may see no need to make any mods. PWK knew what he was doing, so mods are just that MODS...some good, some not so good, some not good at all! Don't get caught up in the mod game unless you find it absolutely necessary...that is just my advice! You seem to be concerned with losing some of the value by changing out the grille cloth, but not too concerned about mods causing that same loss in value...think about that for a minute! LOL! BTW...the Belle doesn't USE the K400 horn lens, folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndH Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Andy, You're right that the K-400 isn't in the Belle. I missed to type that i have Khorn where i replaced this horn. And my advice has been to listen first without mods to see if later mods are good for m00n or anyone else. Sorry if i wasn't clear. Bernd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 mOOn> congratulations! How are You going to ship them out west? How much did or will it cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Moon, I've changed the grill cloth on my Belle and it wasn't that hard. I went from black to brown and the difference was startling. It blends much better. I think the grill cloth that is there on "your" pair is perfect. Don't mess with it, IMHO. The crossovers should be fine; a pair of ALK's might help ... I have one in mine (center channel only) and it sounds great. I ran with the old one for awhile, but I just love Al's work on these. With the exception of my Heresies, ALL my Heritage speakers have them. The only one where the difference wasn't really audible was with the old Cornwalls because the B-series were really smooth (oil caps, simple circuit). Your profile doesn't show where you're located but if you can drive for these, go for it. Shipping will endanger them and add VERY considerable expense. They're really, really heavy ... Up in the Klipschorn range, I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 mOOn, I would not do ANY modifications to this speaker for a MINIMUM of one year. Don't even think about it. Those Belles will be fine to your ears just the way they are. Getting used to these will take some time, and that time will allow you to get to know the Belle sound, across all of your musical tastes. Before modifications, you should know your Belles better than you know your significant other. Once you have a good feeling for the Belle sound, then you MIGHT consider tweaking, but this should not be done without a specific goal in mind - I do not recommend tweaking just for the sake of tweaking. For now, just enjoy them the way they are!!! If you want to discuss a good "tweak" you can start thinking about NOW, let's consider proper amplification for your Belles. If it's solid state you desire, I would recommend looking at McIntosh - if my Mac/Cornwall combo is any indication, this would be a combo very much worth considering. It is very tubelike for solid state. One thing about Mac is if you don't like it, you can recoup the investment (You'll like it - trust me - Mac and Klipsch go very well together). It's also a good place to start if you want to take the leap into tubes. Use a 2 x 50 McIntosh amp for 6 months to a year - and go to those Oregon triode meetings to get the tube education. If you pick tubes, you can sell the Mac and get all the money back that you put into it. They hold value VERY well. Then again, you just might keep the Mac. I did a simple 2 channel system with a Rega CD player into a McIntosh 250 into the '76 alnico Cornwalls, using the gain controls on the Mac for volume. It's divine. Proof that simple is the best way to get from point A to B. Amp - listening room. These are the "tweaks" you should be addressing now. And personally, I like the grill cloth just the way it is as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 m00n, I wouldn't buy and grill just cloth yet. I'm going waaay out on a limb here and betting the upper grill cloth will be black when you see it in person. Have you asked the seller what color it is? The cloth in the folds of the bass bin certainly looks black, and the cabinet looks pretty light for walnut also. I'm thinking he used a flash in that shot and the colors are all screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill H. Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 m00n, Go to Technical questions and see the post from Al Kapplenberger, he has some beautiful Belle's! You can see how your would Look if you changed the gill covers.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 I'm not so sure, Ed. These are Walnut Lacquer (these don't seem to be as dark in color as the Oil), and that cloth just might be cane. The bass bin seems almost "blacked out" - making it impossible to be sure. And mOOn, even if it is 400-500 dollars for the shipping, it's still worth it - highly desireable vintage in excellent condition for $2100 shipped is VERY fair IMO (especially vs. new pricing). Any fear of buyer's remorse will be removed upon the arrival of the speakers. You did benefit from ALL of those Belles on sale this past week - a glut in the market saved you some serious cash. I saw two sets sell for over $2000 a week or two ago, that were not as desireable as these (IMO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Keep in mind that AL K.'s Belles are heavily modified, too! His H/F section was completely rebuilt to accomodate his mod to a larger mid-horn...making that section of his speaker much taller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Is is just me, or is the top grille brown and the bottom grilles black? If so, that does make them one of a kind and must be fixed. I prefer black. After you listen a while you can begin making mods, but wait until you hear a "problem". What year are those Belles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 dnd, I'm not sure either, just taking a wild guess. I asked the seller specifically if they were "BKWL" or "BKWO" and he said they were "BK-WO (no shine to them)". I was seriously considering bidding on them because they are ~4 hours from me but I am really saving my pennies for a Jeff Lessard 45 amp and buying Belles would be a major set-back. I'm really glad m00n got 'em! John, They are 1976 serial# 1P713, I had asked the seller for serial numbers but he only told me one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Got it, Ed. I was just checking the other thread for that. If they are in fact walnut oil, they appear light in the photos - now I understand why you say these may be black. The P is for 1976 (same year as my 2 channel Cornwalls). Things that make ya go hmmmmmm. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the seller says on those grill covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Congrats Moon on your Belles. Depending on flash and photo processing, pictures can be very deceiving to see what color and finish the wood is. I usually only use them to look for flaws, scratches, and dents etc. To me they look like Oils, which is good. Very easy to restore the finish thanks to Andy's (HDBR) tips. Moon - Seriously, listen to the belles for at LEAST 6 months before doing any mods. Get to know your speakers before you try to improve the sound. If there from '76, they will have all metal horns, and dampening will be a factor. Congrats again Moon. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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