leok Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 A pair of Chorus-IIs finally became available locally, and now they're in the living room powered by the parafeed-dogs. They have the lower midrange power that the RF-7s lacked and fill the room with good sound (sweet spot is not important for balanced sound). I do prefer them, in a big, way to the Forte-IIs (yes the Forte bass went a tad lower). Compared to the RF-7s, a majority of recordings sound more alive. Some need the RF-7 hf detail, and for those I have the RF-7s in the "office" driven by the pp amp. There they don't have to fill the room and detailed listening works better. The mid driver/horn (K-61-K) is the same for the Forte-II and Chorus-II. The ones in my Fortes were built in '90 and have p/n and date (1990) printed on the back. The ones in the Chorus were built in '95 and have p/n and date (1995) printed on a paper label glued to the horn. Does anyone know anything about the differences, if any, between these two? An interesting note for tweakers: When I picked up the speakers, one of the mid horns was "defective." It was low in amplitude and distorted. After many hours of tests and poking and examination I finally determined that there was debris between the dome and the phase plug, which I removed by pulling the dome away from the plug and rapping the side of the assembly on a hard surface. The unit seems fine now (signal generator tests show it sounds like it's mate in the other speaker and I can't hear distortion that was so obvious before). leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Congrats on the Chorus II's. They're fine loudspeakers that should continue to impress you for many years to come. You have chosen wisely. Enjoy, and happy listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 I always love the "rapping against a hard surface" fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Leo, very cool. I'd love to drop in sometime soon and give them a listen. I've heard neither the Chorus or the Forte! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 It's tough for a two-way of that size to fill a large to moderately sized room. As much as I love two-ways, they do not always excel in that area. 12 to 15 feet back with some space around them and they tend to collapse in a little. Is that what you have been fighting? In my environments, I always found multiways to have excessive midrange energy. I thought the Cornwalls sounded great, I just couldn't drive them up without feeling bowled over by them. I don't think there is any difference between those drivers Leo -- I think they are the same. The Moondoggies are much better suited for the Chorus' than the RF-7's. I'm glad you have the 7's on the push-pull -- a much better match for them. You now truly have the best of two worlds. Oh Lordy -- break out the rope caulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Leo, I bet the Chorus sounds great with the MD's. Was wondering, were there any other Klipsch on your short list as candidates when you decided on the Chorus? Haven't heard them myself, and would love to sometime, but reading the tons of posts on AudioReview, they must be sweet! Regards, Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Frankel Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Leo: I have 4 Forte II's which I love, but I have never figured out how they can have lower bass response with a 12" woofer than the Chorus II with a 15" woofer. Is not bigger, bassier? I have never had a chance to hear the Chorus II's. What are the differences and do the Forte II truly sound bassier? I know they are rated lower, and that is why I can not figure it out. I would like to know if I am missing out on something better than the Forte II's, though I always prefer more bass than anything else, so if the Forte II's are really lower than I will be content and will stop having Chorus envy! Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM135 Posted July 13, 2003 Share Posted July 13, 2003 Wierd...I always thought RF-7s, as Klipsch's flagship speaker, would be unbeatable. Amazing they are not. Funny how $2200 for RF-7s will not beat the Chorus II in every category. Leok: How does Forte II compare to RF-7s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundthought Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Glad to hear about your new Chorus2s. They are great. I've had mine hooked up to everything short of the kitchen sick and i'm here to tell ya......they are incredible. Yesterday, I had taken my Chorus2s from their place in my living room HT and put my RF7s back into position. I've had the RF7s tucked away for the last 2 months. During that whole time, I didn't miss them in the system at all. I find that strange, given the fact that my whole HT is set up around them specifically. (2 years worth of tweeking) In fact, I was exceptionally happy with their performance prior to the swap-out. So after spending these last 2 months enjoying my Chorus2s in my HT, i'm starting to think I enjoyed them more than I do the RF7s. I found the Chorus2 to blend very well with the RC7. I didn't note any comprimise of soundstanging between the RF7s and Chorus2s. Everything panned back and forth quite nicely. My HT speaker array is comprised of a ???- RC7- 4 RS7s- KSW15- SW12II- SW8II. In my 15x12.5x6.75 living room getting good bass response is tough. Very few amp/speaker combos can fit the bill. Chorus2s and almost anything have my vote. I like the Chorus2s ability to offer a substantial midbass punch and a rather rich tonal quality that is so very pleasant to listen to. Plus, mine are in Oak and they look so gooooood. That definately adds to the appeal, for me. Bottom line....i'm considering putting my Chorus2s back in and taking the RF7s out. sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Wait until you see the crossovers Leo, you'll want to improve on them. I had a pair '95 black Chorus II's. One board was cracked, disabling one midhorn, and a tweeter was blown. I went overkill and built a pair of crossovers, ripping off some ideas on layout from Al K. I tried to stay within the values of the stock schematic, which I bummed from Klipsch. I used Solen air-core inductors for mid-horns, tweeters and woofers, A Solen 68 uf cap for the woofer, Northcreek Crescendo 6 uf for the midhorn, and two Solen 2 uf caps, bypassed with a Northcreek Harmony 0.22 uf Bypass cap for the tweeters. I used the stock autoformers, and Mills 20 ohm 12 watt resistors. I used a 3.6 mH inductor for the woofer, instead of 3.5. I seemed to get tight bass with the new circuit, but lost output in the process. (The DCR was damn close to stock, but it still messed it up.) When I sold them, I fixed and installed the stock crossovers back in them. I gave them a last listen, and the bass seemed better with the stock network.(To me.) But the mid and top I liked better with the higher quality parts, it did not seem so sibilant on the higher midrange, this was using a SS Yamaha MX-1 power amp and CX-1 pre. They really sounded nice with tubes, SE 6BQ5 amps push them plenty loud. I did like the sound of the Tractix mid-horn. They are more sensitive than Cornwalls, but I love my Cornwalls just the same if not more. IMO, with Moondogs, oil caps of some sort in the Chorus II X-over's would be the way to go. I dunno about messing with the stock woofer crossover circuit, but you know what your doing. I don't. The Chorus II is helluva speaker that can still be bought at a good price. They just wern't as purdy as my oak Corns. Enjoy! I'm curious to see what you have in store for your Chorus II's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Reality -- how much do you want for your RF-7's? I miss the Cornwalls for HT -- they were outstanding with movies. Gee Mike, that post had a word count higher than your last 50 posts combined. I'm too lazy to look it up. Does the Chorus have a passive radiator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted July 14, 2003 Author Share Posted July 14, 2003 I have a few minutes here and will try to engage some of the issues mentioned. My experience with Chris's KHorns made me aware of elements of music beyond harmonic (upper midrange and up) timberal accuracy, which is what I had been pursuing, and did achieve with the RF-7s. The RF-7s have a high end clarity that, with some recordings, produces a slightly recessed, you-are-there presentation. Especially with violin and harpsichord, I can hear timbral details that tell me how the performer is playing a note, not just that the note is being played. I think the power dispersion of the cones and horn are different and the relative amplitudes of the two seemed to match up at a 10' listening position. Elsewhere, the highs or lows becomes dominant. So, there is a sweet spot, and right there the sound is magic. The Chorus-IIs provide better matched top to bottom power dispersion coherence. Horn dynamics are obvious from the top down to 600Hz. From there, the passive radiator assisted 15" woofer does a reasonable job of keeping up, in speed and dynamics, with the horns (something I have always liked about the Forte-II). Sound is full, everywhere in the 15' x 30' livingroom, and it has a lot of the dynamic power I heard in Chris' KHorns. Drums, cellos, and especially pianos, all lower register instruments have that in-the-room punch. It's not as much you-are-there, as they-are-here. Timbral accuracy is nice, but dynamics are more important than I thought. The high end can be a little scrambled, esp w/ violins. But that's a trade. I hear some woody qualities of the violin body, with the Chorus-II that wasn't as clear on the RF-7. Imaging on the Chorus-II is uncanny. The speakers disappear like the RF-7s, but they disappear with all the power and dynamics. Very impressive. Some general notes: The Forte-II plays a few notes lower than the Chorus-II in the bass. I have a few recordings w/ walking bass and the difference is obvious. On both speakers the bass is smooth, fast, and powerful (but not boomy). The '95 vintage mid-horn that is in the Chorus, I think, is a slight improvement over the '90 vintage mid in my Forte (they are the same model and I interchanged them. The later version blends more seamlessly with the tweeter. The older model seems to have a peak at its high end. A Forte-II with the later mid-horn is probably as smooth as the Chorus-II with the later horn. My plans for these are pretty much what Mike Stehr has written above, and for similar reasons (I have practiced on the Forte crossovers and drawn many of the same conclusions, like, I don't plan to mess with the woofer circuit). What I considered: I wanted KHorns. But, everything down to, and including LaScala was too big or just wouldn't work in the space available. That left the Cornwall and Chorus-II. The Chorus-II had a tractrix horn, all drivers have exits flush with the front of the motorboard, I knew the bass would be fast, and the Cornwall was still pushing the size envelope. Thanks for the replies, and also, as usual, thanks for all the info that got me here. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 "Wierd...I always thought RF-7s, as Klipsch's flagship speaker, would be unbeatable. Amazing they are not. Funny how $2200 for RF-7s will not beat the Chorus II in every category." No, they won't. In fact, an argument can be made that it is a "draw" - both good, but possessing different strengths and capabilities. The RF-7 costs nearly double what the Chorus II models cost in good condition on the used market, making the Chorus II a very attractive speaker for those more budget conscious. If the Chorus II were built today, they would likely cost more than the RF-7. I will also state that IMO the Chorus (both I and II) are the most underrated speakers Klipsch ever built. Think of these as slimline Cornwalls. To my ears, the Heritage bests the RF where the Heritage bests most everything else out there - the midrange. It's all about the midrange, baybee!!!!! This is where the main topic of debate lies with the RF-7 over the Heritage counterparts - cones vs. horns in the midrange. I am very interested in Leo's results of the crossover work on these as well. The later Heritage models certainly can benefit from crossover upgrades IMO, and I am eager to hear what Leo has to say once that work is completed. One more point: The RF-7 is NOT the flagship speaker of Klipsch - the Klipschorn is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Leo, as always, awesome, erudite commentary. Damn, I've befriended, and live near, a genius. I sure feel humble ... but Leo makes it easy to be the village idiot. My friend Eric (the turbine scientist) wants to get into horns and tubes, so I've been talking with him over the last few days ... Maybe Chorus II's are a good entree ... No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Did I miss it? What happened to Leo's Fortes? That would be a nice entry point as well. Are they gone? Gee, just take him over to Leo's place, he's got a little bit of just about everything over there: Chorus', Fortes, RB-5's, RF-7's, transistor radios... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Leo Congrats on your Chorus. Can't believe I missed this thread before. I absolutely love the Chorus speaker. I found they definetely have the BIG Klipsch sound and a very nice flat responce curve. A very NICE speaker. I agree with the above poster that the Chorus is very underrated. The Forte is probably second. Both are amazing speakers. The Forte in a small room is amazing, it comes close to the BIG klipsch sound but falls a bit short. The Chorus definetly has the BIG sound. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Leok- Welcome to the Chorus II club. I certainly love mine and they are just a tad better than the Forte II; what you give up in bass response you make up with the better (in my opinion) tweeter. Looking back, I almost wish I had them from the beginning, but I couldn't afford them and "settled" with the Forte II. But now I have both and can appreciate each of them for their special talents. You can't go wrong with either speaker; both are, as you say, "smooth, fast, and powerful." Now as far as Chorus II vs. Cornwall, I haven't heard them side-by-side, but when I got to hear Trey's in Indy, I was very impressed. The only think is their size; they are much bigger than the Chorus II and therefore take up more real estate. I'll be auditioning Sprocket's with his Moondogs at some point soon, so that will be nice. We should have hooked his 'dogs up to my Chorus IIs while he was at my place, but we were concentrating on the K-horn/'dog sound. Again, welcome to the club of "underrated Klipsch speakers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Hello: Bought Chorus IIs in 92, stored until 5 - 6 weeks ago. Have Cornwall IIs. The Chorus IIs are extremely bright in the mid. I'd be willing to trade for equal condition (9/10) Cornwall IIs +. Have boxes, manual, packing, prefer pick up/drop off. No smoking, oiled as needed, Medium Oak - walnut, Oak Cornwall IIs acceptable. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Dodger- See my reply to your other post here in 2-ch. BTW, where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 ---------------- On 7/16/2003 1:47:21 PM jhawk92 wrote: Dodger- See my reply to your other post here in 2-ch. BTW, where are you located? ---------------- Greetings: I'm in Rochester, NY near the airport. I would like to trade the Chorus IIs for Cornwall IIs. My offers go to the Forum Family first. I have walnut Cornwall IIs, oak might be nice, but my Chorus IIs have less than 10 hours on them. Bought in '92, stored in in-laws bedroom, taken out, used and oiled (15 min.) 2x year. Sold LaScalas (I Know....) now would rather have the Cornwall IIs. The Chorus IIs are too bright and I'm at the point where I don't want to keep changing equipment. a 50,000 gallon gas leak and the knowledge your home for the last 25 years is worth zip due to contaminated houses around me, mine and contaminated groundwater under me (I have City drinking water) will do that. So Chorus II people I'm ready to do something - they are great speakers, just not a good match to my hearing, that's all. Thanks for letting me vent. Win dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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